Can an ‘industrial strategy’ save the defense biz?

Can an ‘industrial strategy’ save the defense biz?

These are bleak times for the defense industry. You know all the reasons, but top leaders from Boeing, Lockheed and the Aerospace Industries Association listed them again Tuesday in a panel discussion at the Air Force Association’s trade show outside Washington:

The defense budget is going to grow less than it has been; the industry is smaller than ever; and it’s more expensive and technically difficult than ever to finish big new weapons programs. Neil Kacena, Lockheed’s vice president of advanced development, showed a slide that graphed the rapid decline in the number of DoD aircraft programs from the 1950s until today. That means there’s been a commensurate decline in the number of designers, engineers and other skilled workers — and if budgets dip too low, he warned, parts of that smaller workforce could disappear altogether.

Fred Downey, a vice president with AIA, rattled off some fun facts that drove the story home:


• In 1960, if all the U.S. producers of combat aircraft were one company, it would’ve been the 3rd largest in the country. In 2010, if all those big firms were one company, it would be 65th biggest.

• In 1960, there were 700,000 people across the U.S. engaged in building combat aircraft. Today there are about 190,000.

• In 1960,  there were 6 fighter aircraft in development, and 7 in production. Today there are unmanned combat aircraft in development, but no manned fighters; and only limited production of the F-35; F-15; F-16; and F/A-18. (And the U.S. won’t be buying many of those jets.)

• In 1960, there were two bombers in development and three in production. Today, “Well, we’re hoping there’s going to be one in development, but there are none in production,” Downey said.

• In 1960, there were 938 fighters delivered to the government. In 2010 there were 110.

So if this decline continues, Downey warned, parts of the U.S. aerospace industry, which he argued is a “national strategic asset,” will wither and die. If the big balloon went up, how would America crank out fighter jets?

The answer, he said, is a national industrial policy — a guiding document that would guarantee the U.S. keeps open the factories and keeps employed the workers that can build its combat aircraft. But before you can have that you need a — yes, let’s all say it together — a strategy!

We’ve talked a lot about the challenges modern Washington faces in developing the kind of all-encompassing, magical super-strategy that everyone wants to light the path down the road. Assuming for a moment that it’d be possible to get one, could it then form the cornerstone for an “industrial strategy” that would protect the Boeings, Lockheeds and other boldfaced names in the defense game?

You could argue DoD already plans many programs with a view toward protecting key vendors. (See: DDG 1000.) But could it work as a formal policy, and across hundreds of billions of dollars of annual spending? It would require Pentagon officials to give up their abiding faith in the power of competition, and it would require big defense firms to surrender the profit motives that have always pushed them toward big government contracts. An “industrial strategy” might require Washington to became sensible and methodical about how it pours the feed in the trough, spreading less around so that everyone could at least get some.

Could it happen? What do you think?

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We have no industial strategy. When you take 3 fighter programs and replace them with a winner take all single program (industial consequences be damned) it is eveidence that industial viability is not a significant concern. In the case of JSF this was done, in theory, to acheive breakthrough cost reductions though commonality at the expense of a viable industrial base. Unfortunately the commonality was way overstated, the costs way under estimated, and now the familiar phrase keeps popping up “there is no alternative” than to keep stuffing more and more money into the program.

Pretty soon we will be back to the services themselves building aircraft like in the days of the Navy N-3-N. With only 1 aircraft development drogram every 20+ years it will also be improssible to train the next design team with oversight from an experienced team.

Until we can do a better job at making sure that what goes out the door will meet the mission requirements, this will be construed as a “jobs program”.
The other concern will be that the requirement for companies to be one of the “key vendors” to feed at the DoD feeding trough will be only quality powerpoint presentations. To hell with the products.

That will do more damage in the long term than having short term work shortages.
I suggest having engineering and other technical teams contribute to disaster response and recovery. Better designs to save people.

the problem is we waste too much money in foolish R&D programs and do not procure enough systems to keep our force structure current. the root of that problem is the Congressional Military Industrial Complex whose business model is to commit us to foolish acquisition programs that chase immature technology that inevitably results in decades and billions in waste. the solution is.…to vote in politicians who have the integrity to enforce laws and regulations. wow, what a concept.

In 1960, the top tax rate was 91%. It should be higher now because the rich are not supporting national defense with their officer or enlisted kids. The least they can do is support it with their taxes.

Also in 1960 through the 80s there was a Soviet threat requiring high aircraft numbers. Now we have more than sufficient quantity and USAF force structure because the quality is so much higher…and more expensive…thus pricing nearly all other foes out of comparable quality numbers.

We have an industrial policy. It’s called the squeaky wheel. Grease up whomever has the loudest complaint and we’re all good. How else can you explain how DoD’s depot keep surviving when their costs are 2X industry’s.

Well said…

We are spending the same amount of money now as we spent at the peak of the Cold War, and it is hiring us 190,000 people instead of 700,000. Gee, what could have possibly gone wrong? I know the CEO’s of Boeing and Lockheed didn’t make $25 million a year in 1960, even if you indexed their salary for 50 years of inflation they didn’t make anywhere near that. And all this crap we hear about needing to get rid of ITAR so we can sell weapons to India is just a smoke screen so they can outsource more work to India and f’ing China. It takes as many decades now to build a fighter jet than it did years to build one back when no one had ever gone faster than Mach 1. Our secretaries have computers faster than a Cray was when the SR-71 was built, but now we need a strategy to keep key aerospace employees on the government dole? Yeah, right.

I’ve got a stategy for employing more people in defense. First, let’s stop paying these dead beat contractors more to screw us than we do if they come in with a good weapon on time and on budget. Then let’s stop outsourcing all of our work to 3rd world hell holes. Somehow I don’t think machining airplane parts is work that Americans just won’t do.

The problem is often times you don’t knwo the R&D is foolish until you DO the R&D. Hindsight is 20/20, foresight…not so good.

When the DoD learns to stop changing requirements midstream I’m sure costs will come down. They want to go through models A-Z before the thing gets on the ramp and they wonder why there are delays and cost overruns.

You forgot the compromises in system performance that were offered up on the altar of “commonality”! For example.…What USAF or VSTOL aircraft needs the structural weight penalties of a design capable of cat shots and trap landings? Do you go for “commonality” or optimize for performance?

If you have a non-responsive system procurement function, what would you expect the user commands to do? Look what has happened with the SOCOM procurements! Since they were “engaged with the enemy”, and need capabilities NOW, they have essentially divorced themselves from the established procurement agencies within their respective services.

Some people expect to be able to reach out into the dark unknown and pull out a fist full of diamonds every time! In a sense, thats OK, but then they tend to yell and scream when its a couple of lumps of coal.

The biggest impediment to successful and “paradigm breaking” R&D is risk aversion. You do NOT do R&D just to invent a wheel, although some of the less ambitious but lower risk R&D projects do seem to be aiming at least that high! LOL!

In real R&D, you have got to lay out your money, as intelligently as possible of course, and then roll the dice. Sometimes you get a seven, sometimes, no matter how carefully you make your bets, snakeyes. The most histrionic of us tend to have problems with the fact that “snakeyes” is not really a complete loss; after all, you have at least eliminated at least one “rathole”.

Good thoughts for the most part, but a point of order… The first “Cray” was not built until 1972. The first A-12 (the SR-71 “prototype”) flew on 25 April 1962. SR-71 first flew on 22 December 1964 and went on active duty with the USAF on 21 March 1968.

The real bottom line is that we have not designed an “SR-71″ or anything even approaching it as far as being radically innovative ( nor gone to the moon!) since engineers gave up their slide rules! Hopefully that is not, in and of itself, the critical factor in the decline of creativity and technical advancement! Perhaps one day we will not need to make a Powerpoint presentation worthy of a Supreme Court arguement to prove that our technology is “transformational”, and the products of our labor will speak for themselves (as did the SR-71 and the Saturn V) ! .… … :-)

The industrial aspect will be reduced in scope, no question. But how to maximize output and extract national strategic economic value from each unit of Tacair combat aircraft produced, given significantly reduced budgets in the future, that is the question.

No matter how one slices it, today’s current F-35 plan to solve the Tacair recap crisis is not only not sustainable, but is further harming and contributing to the raw decimation and inevitable implosion of US’s Tacair deterrence and force structure. And no, to those ‘analysts’ out there who say: ‘no problem, the US has plenty of modern Tactical aviation, more than we need, there is no concern’. That view is an even worse threat to US’s deterrence value and ability to maintain balance of power.

Today there’s only one option: DoD needs to construct and implement a Strategic ‘Lease’ Program for remaining LRIP F-35 units in order to maximize production efficiency and gain maximal economies of scale going forward. Make each LRIP procurement order affordable for both domestic and Foreign orders. Otherwise, accept the fact that USAF will be buying a max of 25–30 units indefinitely @ $190m with foreign buys falling off a cliff. Forget FRP as envisioned. If that’s the case, it’s better usaf national strategy to buy modern F-16 and F-15 and come up with something better in 10–12 yrs.

Totally bogus argument. Look at LRIP 1–3 and the recently added costs billed to the tune of nearly $1bn. Those exploding LRIP costs were NOT simply some ‘tweaking’ of requirements of early lot builds! Think buddy! The cost blowouts were — and are — nothing else than a seriously UNDERESTIMATED Unit Cost to produce such entirely new and unique space age jets!

And btw… if anything, the ‘changed requirements’ have been towards DUMBING-DOWN design requirements in order to CUT COSTS!

All of this “requirements creep” crap is just another red herring to keep people’s eyes off the real problem, and the government is part of that problem. The government pays contractors more to screw up than they do if the contractor comes in with a good product on time and on budget. Then the government wonders why it gets screwed all of the time, as do the taxpayers who fund the government and the soldiers out in the field who have to fight with the lousey weapons their good buddies procure for them. Then let’s not forget that the defense contractors are all making record profits year after year ever since they got this system of procurement they lobbied for.

God forbid we go back to the National Arsenal model — that would be a huge boondoggle! Isn’t that what we are suggesting here? Not all of you, of course, just the article.

If I may paraphrase;

1) scope creep is a red herring,
2) govt. pays contractors more to screw up than deliver on time/within budget,
3) soldiers fight with lousey weapons provided by greedy contractors,
4) defense contractors are making record profits year after year.

I saw no facts supporting any of this drivel. Play again Senator Levin?

If as you say, it takes decades now to build a fighter, and yet you object to keeping key aerospace employees “on the government dole” then who would you expect will build the next fighter when you need it? The f’ing Chinese? Such engineers are paid for what they know. What they know is determined by their education and experience. If none of them have either, how will you fight the next war?

It’s nice to see the military industrial complex schills have to wait until a thread grows cold before they can add their nonsense.

Except it was a tax rate that none of the “rich” actually paid because of exemptions. How willing would you be to work 18 hour days 6 days a week only to have 9 out of every 10 dollars you earn go to the government?

The top 20% of income earners are currently paying 70% of income taxes. When rates have come down the “rich” have actually paid a greater percentage of taxes. That was true in the early 80’s and it was true after the rate cuts in 2003. So please spare us the whining about how the “rich” should pay more because they are all cowards that don’t want to send their children into harms way. You warriors for Marx should really try another line of deception because your lies about who pays taxes don’t pass the smell test anymore.

I’m a dunce when it comes to matters of defense technicals which is why I love this site. But I would add that some of those stats that Fred Downey cited are misleading. For example when it is stated that:

• In 1960, if all the U.S. producers of combat aircraft were one company, it would’ve been the 3rd largest in the country. In 2010, if all those big firms were one company, it would be 65th biggest.

that almost certainly misses the point that defense funding has not so much dried up but rather than other industries, particularly computer technology, have grown so much. Citing that we have less defense workers than we did in 1960 (700k vs 190k) doesn’t factor in the impact of automation. 50 years of development in robotics and improvements in efficiency simply mean you need less hands on labor.

Here’s a link for Move_Forward if you doubt the whole taxation argument.
http://​tinyurl​.com/​6​6​j​9​2xh

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