SecDef to NATO: We may not always be there

SecDef to NATO: We may not always be there

Secretary Panetta gave NATO a gentler, more politically calibrated version of his predecessor’s speech on Wednesday, warning the alliance that it can’t count on U.S. support for future operations. Here’s how AP’s Lolita Baldor, travelling with Panetta, laid it down:

Just three months into the job, Panetta stopped short of the blistering critique delivered by his predecessor, Robert Gates, in June, when Gates questioned the alliance’s viability and bluntly warned that it faces a “dim, if not dismal, future.” But Panetta echoed many of the same frustrations.

“There are legitimate questions about whether, if present trends continue, NATO will again be able to sustain the kind of operations that we have seen in Libya and Afghanistan without the United States taking on even more of the burden,” Panetta told the Brussels-based organization Carnegie Europe. “It would be a tragic outcome if the alliance shed the very capabilities that allowed it to successfully conduct these operations.”


It’s very telling that Panetta chose to give a softer but similar presentation to NATO — so it wan’t just Gates being cranky as he made for the exit; instead, the same worries carried over to his successor. In fact, if anything today the future of the Euro-alliance looks even bleaker than it did, as all of Gates’ concerns now are in addition to the looming Greek debt crisis, which threatens to spring the trap door under the already anemic world economy.

The key, Panetta seemed to say, will be working all this out when NATO has its next big meeting in Chicago. Per Baldor:

“We are at a critical moment for our defense partnership,” Panetta warned, stressing the need for other nations to share the burden. “While these warnings have been acknowledged, growing fiscal pressures on both sides of the Atlantic, I fear, have eroded the political will to do something about them.”

Looking ahead to the planned NATO summit in Chicago in May, Panetta said the allies must pool their resources and hammer out multinational solutions to face the next generation of threats.

“I am convinced that we do not have to choose between fiscal security and national security,” he said. “But achieving that goal will test the very future of leadership throughout NATO.”

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I can almost see the europeans rolling their eyes and saying “not this s___ again!”. Gates didn’t deliver his little spiel until the end of his tenure, at least Sec Panetta is checking the block upfront. However, that’s all it is: checking the obligatory “we’ve warned them” block.

Get those BCTs out of europe now. Perhaps that will generate some credibility for this kind of message?

It isn’t about the US removing the last combat units from Europe, which I think the only thing that should be left would be the airborne regiment. It’s about NATOs complete lack of ability absent US participation to sustain a campaign. They needed us for command planning, aerial re-fueling, logistical munitions support, SEADs, and EW. They do not have the capability to conduct operations without the US, that’s what he is referring to.

Oh, I understand OK. Unfortunately, all the pontificating in the world will not elicit a positive response from most of the Europeans on this . Liam Fox also spanked the euros today, pouring scorn on the idea of an EU defense force and advising them to get serious about NATO. Nothing will change unless they’re dragged, kicking and screaming, into action. Unfortunately, as long as we, and the UK, continue to do the heavy lifting nothing will change. Gates and Panetta are posturing.

Posturing it may be, but when you lead with the burden sharing card, that is what you will always get. Fact is that Germany, France and the UK all have conservative governments in power — you would not get even this much cooperation or European initiative if the left-wing parties were in power in those nations. It is our fault — that of the United States — for not emphasizing cooperative defense programs, or even paying lip service to rationalization, standardization and interoperability. Secretary Panetta mentioned an “Alliance Ground Surveillance” system as an example of “pooling and sharing” — but until and unless NATO nations, including the USA, are willing to give up the wastefulness of independent national programs, and take a chance on interdependence, all we will ever have is finger-pointing, angry words — and no progress. I cannot see how US withdrawal of even more forces from Europe will help this situation at all. So the people who are advocating this sort of thing pretty much know what they want, and it is not a strong America involved in the world abroad.

V&P, although you make good points, the “rationalization, standardization and interoperability” has been tried and found wanting due to..take you pick…different roles, missions, political differences, industrial policy(ies), economic considerations, etc. Harrier was about as good as it got. We’re trying again with F-35 and MEADS, but the latter is on life support and the former needs a lot of work before we can call it a true international program. We still work with the Brits on certain submarine programs, but the Brits are loathe to buy their subs and aircraft carriers from us, as we are loathe to rely on them for surface combatants, missiles, and certain other kit. (BAE does have an industrial presence in the U.S.) Its public money and politics gets the final vote in how its spent. I wish it were otherwise.

WRT the BCTs coming home, to me this represents “low hanging fruit” as far a budget realities are concerned. You disagree, but what do those forces bring to the table in this day and age that a CONUS based division or BCT do not? At least the CONUS based forces already have host nation permission to deploy as we see fit! If the NATO allies see them as desirable, they can follow Government of Japan’s example and help defray the costs. It has nothing to do with weakening America or our defense posture. Quite the contrary, its one less rat hole down which we have to pour funding.

Without an EU defense force people will always connect NATO to the US interest and remember past days of the cold war. Only a decent EU defense force will create the bonding within europe necessary to give more projection to the military forces, and indirectly improve EU capabilities to participate in NATO. The brits and the US forgot that there are a substantial number of citizens from left wing (socialists, specially in France, Italy, Germany and Spain) that see that NATO is no longer necessary. So asking those countries to improve their participation in NATO will not work. I have friends that rationalize like this: NATO=US=capitalims=wall street .…. then everything is said!

With the current economic crisis in the USA. We could pull out of Europe, and re-enforce our borders to the south, and assist Mexico with the drug war if they would like our assistance. We could then build new bases on our southern borders putting more Americans back to work. Then if we had to many troops we could downsize the military more then already is being done. The cold war is over, and terrorism is the new dish. our military can strike anywhere we are needed by launching from our airfields in America, or from the sea. I see no reason, vice political reasons that we do not pull out of Germany, and Japan.

Tell it to the useless U.N. not NATO

And Obama, Pelosi, and Harry Reid would secure our Southern Borders with troops? hahaha

Yeah, that whole already signed off missile defense deal and mini-naval armada to keep the sea lanes clear for Europe and China is a real credible threat Panetta.

We could add the 70K+ troops from Iraq and Afghanistan to the 3 BCTs and attack the Narco-Terrorist Violent Extremeist Organizations (VEOs) in Mexico. These VEOs are non-governmental organizations that are thriving in the 3rd World south of our border. This could be just another operation in the GWOT, a kinetic War on Drugs. Stand aside Government of Mexico (GOM), we are coming in to clean house. BTW you will owe us a lot of low cost petroleum products in return.

This isn’t a matter of cooperative programs. It doesn’t matter what tankers they buy, just have some. Have enough planning staff to actually run the air war center. Invest some money in whatever EW/SEADS capability they like, just have some. Don’t run out of munitions. This is about the ability to even project power independently without even getting into the interoperability issue. It’s a lack of capacity.

Yeah and stop bombing the crap out of Libya civilians to protect civilians.

US blood and treasure = war booty for NATO’s shadow op = funding for the international financiers — you know, the industrial/military/pharmaceutical/banking/media/illegal drug/people trafficking complex (aka NWO). It’s not Wall Street, it’s the European Oligarchs & the Khazar-run international finance/church op, THE puppet master, with DC/Wall Street as a mere puppet and a stage.

I believe in your friends rationalization as being mere propaganda driven delusions likely from Rothschild controlled “City of London” news sources (AP/Reuters, etc.). Facts are more likely NATO=Europe’s Oligarchs=International Financiers=Quest for One-World Governance. The US military is just the self-paid policeman directed by beholden politicians not wanting to cause their largest campaign donors (enter international financiers here) remorse. How many US presidents have been assassinated — most likely over control of the monetary system? The “names-you-never-hear” run the show and want their global order.

The concept of the U. S. pulling out of Europe is BAD idea, first it should be pointed out that the EXTREEM lefties ( HEY I AM A LEFTIE…BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER MY TIME IN SERVICE.… AND SERVED DOWN RANGE…AND GOT WOUNDED, SO PLEASE DEFINE LEFTIE…THANK YA VERY MUCH) are the one’s whom set the stage for WWII!! if you forgot that sad escapade, just pay a visit to some of the Gravyards ahd memorials that dot the Euopean country side…NO WAIT, even better, go and see the CONCENTRATION CAMPS!! Mabye that will job yuo memory!! Funny thing abour memory…how soon we forget!! BUT if you would like another land war on the European continent, help yourself, don’t count on me playing

Why are troops in Great Britian and Germany? We should rebase our forces in Serbia and Greece and keep our Italy bases. The threat is from the south not russia. Someday within our lifetime Russia, Poland, Germany, Denamrk, Norway, Sweden, Hungary, etc will be part of a new allianance of Northern European Anglos. Back in America we should take up Presidential candidate Perry and use our troops in Mexico. Foriegn news networks report on the mass killings down ther everyday but the US media ignores it. It is time for another General pershing to arise and this time we need to stay like we did in Iraq and Afghan and straighten the mess out including teaching them English!!!

BTW #6’s cousin: “Karl Friedrich, Hereditary Prince of Hohenzollern (Karl Friedrich Emich Meinrad Benedikt Fidelis Maria Michael Gerold Erbprinz von Hohenzollern) was born on 20 April 1952 in Sigmaringen, Baden-Württemberg, Germany. He is the eldest son of Friedrich Wilhelm, Prince of Hohenzollern and Princess Margarita of Leiningen and heir to the headship of the House of Hohenzollern.“
Karl Friedrich is … The Present Sovereign Grand Master of The Order of The Dragon” (wiki The Order of The Dragon for fun — or, just remember reptiles! http://​en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​O​r​d​e​r​_​o​f​_​t​h​e​_​D​r​a​gon)…
(#6’s uncles fought for the title, including Prince of Orange. (See #3 below) and # 6 is als o “a descendant of the United Kingdom’s Queen Victoria, and is in the line of succession to the British throne. He is also related to all of the current monarchs in Europe.“
en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​G​e​o​r​g​_​F​r​i​e​d​r​i​c​h​,​_​P​r​i​n​c​e​_​o​f​_​P​r​u​s​sia

1) “Archduke Karl of Austria (Karl Thomas Robert Maria Franziskus Georg Bahnam von Habsburg-Lothringen) Prince Imperial of Austria and Prince Royal of Hungary,[1] (born 11 January 19 61 at Starnberg, Bavaria, Germany) is the son of Otto von Habsburg and Princess Regina of Saxe-Meiningen and the grandson of the last Austrian emperor, Charles I. Karl is the current head of the Austrian branch of the Order of the Golden Fleece.” is the so-called King of Jerusalem en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​O​t​t​o​,​_​C​r​o​w​n​_​P​r​i​n​c​e​_​o​f​_​A​u​s​t​ria
en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​K​a​r​l​_​H​a​b​s​b​u​r​g​-​L​o​t​h​r​i​n​gen
… his dad helped produce the EU.

2) This position is the remainder of the ancient Holy Roman Emperor:
Franz Bonaventura Adalbert Maria Herzog von Bayern[1] (born 14 July 1933, as Franz Bonaventura Adalbert Maria Prinz[2] von Bayern), styled as His Royal Highness The Duke of Bavaria, is head of the Wittelsbach family, the former ruling family of the Kingdom of Bavaria. His surname at birth was Prinz von Bayern (English: Prince of Bavaria).[3] In 1997, after the death of his father, he changed his surname to Herzog von Bayern (English: Duke of Bavaria).[4][5]
Franz is a great-grandson of the last King of Bavaria, Ludwig III, who was deposed in 1918. He is also the current senior co-heir-general of King Charles I of England and Scotland, and thus is considered by Jacobites to be the heir of the House of Stuart and the rightful ruler of England, Scotland, France and Ireland as King Francis II, though he himself does not advance the claim. http://​en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​F​r​a​n​z​,​_​D​u​k​e​_​o​f​_​B​a​var…

3) “Willem-Alexander, Prince of Orange (given names: Wi llem-Alexander Claus George Ferdinand; born 27 April 1967), Prince of the Netherlands, Prince of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer van Amsberg, is the eldest son of Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands and the heir apparent to the Dutch throne.” (“Queen Beatrix’s personal wealth is now estimated to exceed $5.5 billion.” en.wikip edia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​Q​u​e​e​n​_​B​e​a​t​rix) .… Prince Willem-Alexander forfeited his (distant) succession rights to the throne of each of the sixteen Commonwealth Realms (like20Canada and Australia), because he married a Roman Catholic.” en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​W​i​l​l​e​m​-​A​l​e​x​a​n​d​e​r​,​_​P​r​i​n​c​e​_​o​f​_​O​r​a​nge
(wiki Jonkheer for fun)
4) “Donatus, Hereditary Prince of Hesse (Heinrich Donatus Philipp Umberto) (born 17 October 1967) is the eldest son and heir of Moritz, Landgrave of Hesse, head of the House of Hesse” en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​D​o​n​a​t​u​s​,​_​H​e​r​e​d​i​t​a​r​y​_​P​r​i​n​c​e​_​o​f​_​H​e​sse
(goes back to the Landgrave of Hesse — (Remember the Hessian Mercenaries in the American Revolution? Their Emperor, the Landgrave, sold them and got very rich.) en.wikiped ia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​P​h​i​l​i​p​_​I​,​_​L​a​n​d​g​r​a​v​e​_​o​f​_​H​e​sse — this is where Rothschild came in!

5) Friedrich, H ereditary Duke of Württemberg (Friedrich Philipp Carl Franz Maria Erbherzog von Württemberg) was born on 1 June 1961. He is the eldest son of HRH Duke Carl of Württemberg and HRH Princess Diane of Orléans. (also goes back to the Landgr ave of Hesse)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich,_Hereditary_Duke_of_W%C3%BCrttemberg
6 ) Georg Friedrich Ferdinand, Prince of Prussia, (legal name: Georg Friedrich Ferdinand Prinz von Preußen) (born 10 June 1976) is the current head of the Imperial House of Hohenzollern, the former ruling house of the German Empire and the Kingdom of Prussia.
en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​G​e​o​r​g​_​F​r​i​e​d​r​i​c​h​,​_​P​r​i​n​c​e​_​o​f​_​P​r​u​s​sia

third time’s a charm (please post) — theses (1–6) above are your “yourapeein” oligarchs — your masters — SO, just get used to it you useless eaters, you slaves on the global plantation, you cannon fodder for the one-world govt. .… coming to a town near YOU soon~!

damn straight, and don’t get me strated about the reptilans that survived the yucatan meteorite impact some 60 Mill years ago. ya think they may be running “the show” — there’s no doubt! (ASK ROTHSCHILD) Problem for them is, they count on our technology, and the “piopulation bomb” has them ticked. DHOP~!

The conspiracy nutcase spammer get 10 posts for free and I get deleted by admin for putting a link? Get your policies straight dodbuzz. Consider using “real names” or twitter/facebook account access only. At least that gives some sort of accountability to people.

Trouble is, where do you stop — Tierra del Fuego?
Those drug lords would most probably be more deadly than the Taliban — AND they’d be supported by the drug lords inside the US and all their bought politicians — another no-win war. Better to build a maginot line along the border and shoot anything that moves off the approved approaches. Also shoot down any plane that isn’t on an approved commercial schedule. There is NO political will in USA to stop drugs and that will be your downfall

A very famous historian once said, in much better words, that if, as a country, YOU FORGET THE PAST(e.g., WW1, WW2, Korea (w/China). the Berlin Airlift (w/Russia), the Cold War (w/ Communist USSR and China, among others), Vietnam, etc, that we are DOOMED TO REPEAT IT.….this is my fear if NATO were to disintegrate. Things are bad enough. Shall we shoot ourselves in the foot —- again??

The problem is NATO — US as policeman for the oligarch’s world order. Figure it out! O declares Libyan war! WTF. Aren’t we broke enough. The olies love it ’cause WE PAY WITH BLOOD AND TREASURE FOR THEIR BENEFIT. Sure, keep some bases overseas. But, remember who you are fighting for — NOT U.S.

have you studied the german empire from the start of the inquisitions forward? how ’bout the monarch’s and the prince electors — know who they were? can you wrap your head around a fourth reich? it ain’t bragging if it’s the truth.

The olies sure want you to repeat it — in fact, they are counting on it. Problem is, it is already here via financial conquest. The Banksters (hitmen of the olies) have funded both commies as well as encouraged US to load up the debt (easy money). We are spread so thin and drained so low (policeman for the one-order), they are almost ready to release the dogs of war. God’s speed!

The argument for forward basing in Europe is pretty darned simple. For any contingency in the Middle East, Africa, even South Asia, it takes a lot less time to deploy forces out of Central Europe than CONUS. This is not just an Army issue. The same principle applies to Air Force tactical air wings based in Germany and Navy Carrier Battle Groups homeported in the Med. If you have not noticed, expenditures for strategic airlift have been going down, and more is on the chopping block. I really wish that people who advocated withdrawal from Europe fess up to being isolationists because they have no intention of letting US forces deploy outside the Western Hemisphere ever again once they have gone home.

And clearly, if one intends to defend only the homeland, the need for rationalization, standardization and interoperability diminishes. Of course, we’ll always have Canada, and maybe Chile ?

just remember also, Alger Hiss, a convicted commie, co-authored the UN charter — for the benefit of the EU — see #1, so-called King of Jerusalem, above

let’s not forget the “HOLY ROMANS” — nka as a “church” … probably throw a little weight ($) around? Still alive and doing well. Let’s SEE, jessuits, are they the Pope’s militia?

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