The Army makes a case for itself

The Army makes a case for itself

All this talk about how the geostrategic future of the U.S. is in the Western Pacific, which means Washington should bet on the blue services? The Army’s top leaders have heard it before. Army Chief of Staff. Gen Ray Odierno said he could remember serving as a one-star on the Army Staff and seeing all the briefings and white-papers about sea– and airpower as the keys to America’s future. Then, he said, the U.S. went on to fight two prolonged land wars.

Odierno and Army Secretary John McHugh say they get it: The Army may have to shrink somewhat to keep pace with the reduced growth of DoD’s forthcoming budgets. But the United States will always need a robust Army, they said, because for as fashionable as sea– and airpower might become, they’ll never be able to hold territory without putting boots on the ground and “troops in the mud,” in McHugh’s phrase.

“The enemy gets a vote,” he said. “We can dictate to ourselves how we are postured to fight, but we cannot dictate to them what war to fight … We need an Army that is capable of doing whatever’s necessary, and that is the Army we’re building.”


He had another line ready in a press conference with reporters: It was all good and well for American air forces to “shock and awe” Baghdad at the outset of the Iraq War  – “But after we shocked and awed, we had to march,” he said. There’ll always be a need for land power to walk through the door that the other forces may kick open — though McHugh would also probably point out that the Army can do its fair share of kicking, too.

McHugh wound up his keynote address at the Association of the United States Army’s annual trade show by invoking Gen. George Marshall, speaking after World War II: “Respect,’ Marshall said, ‘is an intangible. But consider what it would’ve meant to us in tangibles if we commanded the military respect of Italy, Germany and Japan in 1939. Consider what it would’ve meant if we’d had the capability to organize to fight and win — had they anticipated American willingness and American resolve, perhaps the world might never have known World War II.’”

Having made the case for their service, McHugh and Odierno acknowledged it can’t stay at its present size and expense, though they declined to give any specifics about where they thought it could or should wind up. Odierno acknowledged it was possible the Army’s end strength, its major “bill-payer” could drop to or below 520,000, from about 570,000 where it is today. But both leaders vowed that wherever the force settles, it will remain “balanced,” able to handle as much as possible of the Army’s spectrum of operations.

Odierno said the ongoing DoD and Army reviews would answer many questions about what the force could look like after Iraq and Afghanistan, but he cautioned everyone in the defense game to be realistic. According to one school of thought in Washington, DoD should abandon the principle that the U.S. should be able to handle two major wars simultaneously, which would then free up the requirement to maintain forces at a certain level.

That’s all well and good, Odierno said, but he pointed out that the two-war requirement was in place before the Sept. 11th attacks, when the Army’s end strength stood at about 480,000. The bloody and tough experience of Iraq and Afghanistan showed that the U.S. couldn’t actually fulfill that key commitment, he said, without adding thousands of troops to the Army and Marine Corps.

In the context of all these pending decisions about force structure and budgets, McHugh was asked whether he favored keeping the Pentagon’s holy “golden ratio,” under which the military departments are funded about equally. McHugh said he certainly hoped that would continue.

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Any time we fight a real war we need the Army and Marines. We can’t win a war with Navy and Air Force only. Combined forces are required. All three. Land, Sea, Air.

To be fair, the “two war doctrine” never considered those two wars to be rotational occupations. Our army was big enough in 2003 to invade Iraq twice at the same time as long as the forces stayed until it was over. Whether or not the war doctrine should include occupation as part of the deal is a more valid question to ask.

Actually for much of the cold war period we did have substantial forces occupying Germany and Europe so yes the two war doctrine DID consider “rotational occupation”.

Don’t think where are troops are and what you call it make a difference. Most of the 2nd decade we were in Vietnam dwarfed what we had in Iraq. Where we incapable of fighting anywhere else? I think you are falling into the expectation of “quick wars” we Americans have had since Grenada, Panama and Desert Storm.

Occupation is a loaded term w/political overtones. Did we occuppy Vietnam? Do we call the 60 years we were stationed in Germany/Japan an occupation? Is it an occupation only when an insurgency exists, the importation of democracy have a role or a politicial party is trying to discredit another party? We’ve got plenty to discuss without introducing talking points.

I would call living and fighting where we weren’t invited an occupation. Not trying to get into a political debate, just a numbers debate. As for Germany, would you really put 3 years of V and VII Corps duty in Germany with your family in the same category as MND-B duty? The army was something like twice he size it is now during Vietnam, so of course we didn’t have a problem. And back when we had two full corps in Germany, wasn’t the national strategy two big wars and a couple smaller wars at the same time? Or something similar? I’m not expecting quick wars, but I was comparing wars like WWII with Vietnam or OIF where either you’re there for the duration or there for a rotation. The only reason we expanded the army this last decade was to build a rotational pool for OIF and OEF. If we were there until the end of the mission, then there would be no need for a bigger army.

TMB — You said, “the “two war doctrine” never considered those two wars to be rotational occupations.” That’s not true and I used historical examples. Our occupation of Germany and Japan was rotational (and didn’t always have families). Vietnam was also an occupation using your definition (there’s a reason I didn’t want to use that term). We had the 2.5 war doctrine the whole time and yes the Army was twice as large but the “occupation” was also more than twice the size of today’s deployed troops. Again, my point is the 2.5 war doctrine DID consider Army deployments.

The Army’s purpose is to fight our wars and defend the nation. Sometimes “occupations” further defense goals or put us where we expect to fight the next war (think Soviet Union then, Iran now). You suggest including deployed forces (I don’t like the occupation term) in the doctrine equation. My point is they always have been. That’s WHY they are deployed. They prevent a war or are placed to engage if one comes about.

When we’re talking about make-up of the various elements of our defense we absolutely need to get our crystal ball out and plan for the future, not the present. The future is not Iraq and and the ‘stan-the future for better or worse is the far East. Any rational thinker can see that China is the big threat on the horizon. Iran not so much so. Must prepare our forces accordingly for a conflict with China within the next ten years. Now before some of you libtards say “war with China is unthinkable” well all you’re got to do is look at history. War with Japan and Germany was “unthinkable” too at the time but it happened. China is building up their military to confront us-no one else. They are developing weapons specifically to use against us-no one else. They are developing doctrine to use against us-no one else. They are claiming large areas of the ocean as their territory. These all all signs that war is coming like it or not. Therefore, we need and must reconfigure our forces to confront this reality. What that mean is maritime superiority in every way. We do need a strong Army but in this conflict the Army will take a back seat. this conflict will be fought on the sea and in the air. It will be a quick, fast and a deadly war. The Army will play a role but not the same as before. the Marines will take the lead with the Army coming in after them with their heavy divisions. We need divert dollars back into getting our warships back up to running condition again, we need to invest in more subs, we’re going to need every carrier we have and then some (our land bases won’t last long) and we’re going to need lots of fast, armed transports ships (which we don’t have). After all, a Army “here” is no good there.

Take money away from the Air Force. What does the Air Force do that the Navy can’t? Not a whole lot really. Combine the Army and Air Force in to one branch for funding purposes like the Navy and Marine Corps and have an Army General run it all.

that makes a lot of sense, I never understood why the air force HAD to be a separate service. I would also make sense to have an Army general in charge since the air force leadership appears to be weak.

The Army and the air force should be attached at the hip like the Navy and Marines are. The Navy and Marines go to the same schools and training, you can’t tell the difference between a Navy and Marine pilot since they are trained the same and they both wear the same wings and they both fly together. Navy bases are Marines bases are Navy bases. Marines were “born” on Navy ships and they have fought side by side with sailors since the beginning of our country.

Yep. I spent 4 years in the Navy and was at a Marine Battalion the whole time, I don’t see why the Army and Air Force can’t do the same thing.

BigRick.….…..If you truly believe China will be our enemy then forget about the Navy and Marines. Aircraft Carriers and troop assault ships are both big fat targets, slow moving and easily destroyed by cheap wave skimming missiles are are very hard to detect and kill especially when they come in large numbers.

Then you can easily say the same of the Air Force.

China’s making new AA, SAMS and several new fighter planes.

The Army and Air Force do operate together to some degree. They now have many joint bases and the Air Force Special Operators train with the Army Rangers and SF.

I think when you talk about the Navy and Marines training together, you were referring to their aviators. Obviously they do not go to the same boot camp together nor does a sailor get infantry training like every Marine does.

The Air Force has many rolls and aircraft which the Navy does not i.e. they have the strategic bombers which the Navy has none and the F-22 which out performs any fighter aircraft in the Navy. The Air Force also has special reconnaissance aircraft like the Blackbird and U-2 while the Navy has none of this type.

Yes you can say the same thing about any branch except the C-5’s, C-17’s, C-141’s etc, of the USAF can fly under most radar’s (nap of the earth) at speeds that can bring in Army Paratroops, Rangers, and SF very fast. Granted, you would need follow-on forces once the airheads have been established but it would be less risky then floating in a MEU on a bunch of slow boats.

This all assumes we have knocked out any of their satellites first.

That argument is flawed on so many levels. More importantly it shows the lack of foresight and thinking to project future wars. The Air Force’s spending is so out of wack with the other branches of service. Think of this, no other country has yet successfully fielded stealth technology. The B-2 can strike anywhere in the world and land back in Missouri the same day yet the Air Force has plans for the 2018 bomber and the 2037 bomber. You shouldn’t have both but one that can do both missions. The same thing can be said of that waste of space/money they call the F-22. It has no role other then air superiority. Why? People talk about cutting the F-35 but the F-35 will have many mission capabilities. Also the Air Force has retired the SR-71.
Also to your point of Navy and Marines not going to training together. They go to the same academy, have the same pilot training, only have one of the branches having medical staff which saves tons of money. The Air Force is definitely where the biggest and deepest cuts should be coming from.

I’m a sweet, caring girl , I met my boy-friend, an uniformed-guy working in Air Force, on— s e e k i n g u n i f o r m.c0m –. It’s a 10-year-old club for uniformed personnel finding their intimate lovers. Try to find your uniformed one there!

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