A joint Navy-Air Force ballistic missile?

A joint Navy-Air Force ballistic missile?

Tomorrow’s lean defense budgets may force the military services to do something once unthinkable, the Navy’s top strategic weapons planner said Thursday: Cooperate on designing a new nuclear missile.

Rear Adm. Terry Benedict, head of the Navy’s strategic systems programs, told attendees at the Naval Submarine League conference outside Washington that U.S. strategic forces eventually will need new nuclear ballistic missiles. The Navy and Air Force can sustain their current fleets of Tridents and Minutemen for the next few decades of the 21st century, but they won’t last forever.

He characterized the situation in the same way we heard Air Force Secretary Michael Donley broach a new Air Force One earlier this year: This isn’t a problem we need to resolve today, but given the amounts of time and money it takes for these things to pay off, the sooner DoD gets cracking, the better. So Benedict said he already has.


“We’re not waiting around for aging to overtake us,” he said. For now, the Navy plans on a life-extension upgrade for its Trident D-5 submarine-launched ballistic missiles. They’ll go to sea in around 2017, as the “Trident D-5 LE,” and meanwhile, he has already begun to talk to people inside the Building about a new, common ballistic missile.

“I’m not waiting around to be told how to do my job. We currently have collaboration efforts with the Air Force,” Benedict said. He described how officials are looking at a common fuse for the Minuteman’s W78 warhead and the Trident’s W88; common guidance systems R&D, common propulsion R&D; electronic systems; ordnance; tooling and so on.

“I believe that some degree of commonality in parts between current and future missile systems is possible, and you can look at that from aspects of suppliers, land and ships systems, missile systems and components. They offer the greatest possibility for cost savings,” Benedict said.

The defense budgets of Austerity America just will not support separate, parallel new missiles for the Air Force and Navy, Benedict said. That doesn’t mean that a new ICBM has to be identical to a new SLBM – in fact, there are compelling reasons not to use the same missiles, in case a failure or weakness in one means the entire U.S. strategic deterrent is compromised. Still, an overall joint effort is a compelling way to go, he argued, and soon.

“This is not a decision we can postpone through 2020 or 2030 – this is a near-term decision that will affect sustainment and recapitalization,” Benedict said.

The two big milestones on the horizon are the Air Force’s plan to retire the Minutemen by around 2030 and the Navy’s plan to retire its D-5 LE missiles by around 2040. But having a new inter-service missile ready to take the watch by then could be a steep uphill climb:

First, as defense analysts never tire of pointing out, much of the U.S. nuclear weapons industrial base is gone. It could be difficult and expensive to build new missiles and very difficult and very expensive to build new warheads. Second, not everyone in the national leadership is as enamored of nuclear weapons as strategic forces airmen and sailors.

Although the storyline at Sub League was etched in granite – Only A Kook is Afraid of a Nuke, to borrow a phrase from another time and place – how might it look to Americans and the world if Washington began building a new generation of nuclear weapons? President Obama broke a lot of china last year trying to get the Senate to ratify the New START treaty, and he and many other world leaders want to eliminate nuclear weapons altogether.

Inside the nuke family, however, that view is considered laughable. On Wednesday, former Strategic Command boss retired Adm. Rich Mies excoriated “Countdown to Zero” types, almost mocking abolitionists’ dream of a nuke-free world. Peace, he said? You like peace? What do you think has prevented a major global conflict since World War II? It ain’t the milk of human kindness – it’s the threat of massive retaliation. If the Nobel committee wants to give a prize to the people who’ve done the most for peace, it should award it to the troops of America’s strategic forces, Mies said. That is not a joke.

So the broken record is about to get stuck again: The U.S. needs to make a strategic decision soon about the future of its nuclear arsenal. Benedict was asked about the possibility of going to a nuclear dyad, and he said the White House and StratCom are reviewing all that right now, though OSD has been mostly kept out of it. Their findings could begin to inform decisions about the future of the U.S. nuclear posture.

What do you think – should the U.S. plan on maintaining its full nuclear deterrence for the long haul? Should the Navy and Air Force collaborate on a new missile?

Join the Conversation

Economy of scale is always a good thing, so long as it doesn’t turn into a “one fails, all fail” dilemma like the F-35.

How eager are China, Russia, Pakistan, etc. to eliminate nuclear weapons? Yeah, that’s what matters. Who give’s a **** if France or the UK want to get rid of their’s, they were never a threat to the US anyway. And “How would it look to American if we start building those evil nukes again”? Oh, I don’t know, maybe like we finally pulled our heads our of our backsides?

Good Morning Folks,

These joint ventures on platforms and weapons systems always seem to be a good ideas on paper but more often then not in the end the specific requirements of the services end up making the Economy of scale move more expensive and with unsatisfactory results then if each service would have just pursued its own programs.

It is well known that the W78 warheads needs to be replace for various technical and aging reasons, which if I mention here this post will be pulled. The suggestion several months ago that the W-88 was a logical replacement on the Minuteman for the W78 was dismissed by engineers and designers as being to expensive of a solution. Now a dual use warhead for the Trident and Minuteman is a good idea, naw I don’t think so butternuts.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

W87s (which are being moved to the Minuteman fleet since the Peackeepers were retired) are essentially W88s minus a layer of goodness that reduces their yield from 475kt to 330kt. As you point out, there are issues with commonality re: ICBMs/SLBMs. For instance SLBMs are not EMP hardened as I recall (nor are their warheads). Also there are different environment and transportation requirements.

Here’s a way to save a bunch of money-eliminate the land based triad. It doesn’t do us any good anyway.
The only assured second strike capability we have is the SSBN and I don’t think we going to be starting any nuc war.

Don’t make a new missile, instead devellop the prompt global strike and use it to conventional and nuclear attacks.

Great comments here gentlemen (sorry I cannot tell if a pseudonym is female) I think the key is too combine R&D budgets on “every technology needed to maintain a robust industrial base” to maximize investment potential and dollar amounts using as much commonality as possible build two systems and a new nuclear warhead of variable yield from 100kt to 1MT.

The other thing I would like the US to say is “Yes we have agreed to New Start levels of deployed strategic weapons and delivery systems, HOWEVER, we will also have the most modern delivery system and nuclear weapons infrastructure possible CAPABLE of out producing any other nation if the strategic environment changes”

Simply we do not have the luxury of allowing the skills necessary to produce the most modern and robust systems “whither on the vine”.

Why worry about funding for a second strike with the current socialist administration and socialist congress rolling over for the terrorists.

Good Afternoon Folks,

bobbyymike. I mostly agree with you of course I’m sure you know that what your ideas come real close to making the US Government the sole make of nuclear weapons and the support systems and delivery platforms. Personally I have no problem with that but many of the butternuts I’m sure if they understood the ramifications of what you said would be yelling socialism all over the place.

A subject you avoided as have all others on this issue is testing. With 1215 “official count” of nuclear test in the United States since 1945 the long therm damage of nuclear testing should be now with a 50 years suspension should be well known. In short on the down wind side of the nuclear tests both above and below ground have shown no environmental damage that can be attributed to nuclear testing.

Most of the hot spots, if not all, in the restricted areas become safe decades ago. The USGovernment choses to keep the area off limits because of treasure hunters and other who have an interest in these areas. Any useable military information for rival nations with nuclear weapons disappeared looooong ago. The only people being left out are the citizens of the US who after all paid the bills for all this. If there is any logical reasons for keeping citizens off these public lands, well that’s another wholly different issue.

With what is at stake with nuclear weapons it is imperative that they be tested, the same as the Minuteman and Trident missiles that deliver these weapons. Many people will get their panties in a knot over this suggestion, so what, it simply makes no sense not to maintain these weapons in a safe manner, safe nuclear weapons require requires periodic testing.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

navy learning how to take over from tha AF when is it disolved later .

The land based portion is the most difficult to take out, the most accurate, and the cheapest to maintain. Yeah, let’s get rid of it. Jesus, I wish people would use their heads.

(Wait’s for the first ‘tard to respond with, “but they know exactly where they are”.)

And you’re going to “devellop” prompt global strike without making a new missile? Okay…

It is only secure until someone has a general location of where said SSBN is and then decides to H-bomb depth charge away that sub to Davy Jones’ locker …

Land based ICBMs can survive a first wave in hardened / dispersed silos and even avoid them by being mobile in any number of ways (mobile launchers moved by aircraft, rail road cars, self-contained systems, etc…) — they also serve as reminder to the enemy that you have a completely secure option on sovereign soil that will assure their destruction coupled with a long range stealth bomber / ALCM you have the deterrence required..

There is no reason to have as many nukes as we do. But to say we don’t need any is insane. Peace only lasts until it becomes worth it to fight.

Our current weapons and control systems are aging. If we don’t keep things up to date and maintained it wont take an attack to start world war 3.

Nuclear deterrence is necessary in a world full of nuclear armed states. The jeanie is out of the bottle
and can’t be put back in. We need survivable systems, submarines and small mobile missiles make sense.
Hardened silo’s are a thing of the past, the enemy satellites may track some, but not all mobile systems.

I think that a Navey/Air Force joint venture,is a good thing. I hope it is pursued.

A first wave nuc attack will wipe out 90% of the land based ICBMs, a second wave will take out nearly all of the rest. Read something scholarly for once, not just propaganda http://​www​.princeton​.edu/​s​g​s​/​p​u​b​l​i​c​a​t​i​o​n​s​/​s​g​s​/​p​d​f​/​2​_​2​-3H....
In other words, if each silo is targeted with a single nuc we’ll lose 90% of the silos, if each silo is targeted with two nucs then they pretty much all gone. So you know what the bad guys will do don’t you? They will target each silo with 2 or more nucs in the first wave.

Now contrast that with the bad guys trying to find a SSBN, which can be anywhere in the world, there’s no navy on this planet than can do that, not even ours.

So what do think the bad guys are more afraid of?

Of course you just validated the reason to have 450 single warhead ICBM’s along with the other systems in the Triad. At New Start levels of 1550 warheads Russia will not use 900 of those warheads to “just” defeat our ICBM’s.

Its called deterrence and the Triad best insures it.

If you want to play the numbers game then “they” still win. They’ll have 650 nucs left over to flatten every military base and city in the US-that’s more then enough weapons. The only part of the triad
that be left to respond would be the SSBNs.

You could build more silos and more B-2 bombers but in the end they will all be just a waste of money because in a nuc war the Russians will always have more weapons then they actually need to take us out easily.

The only point I making is why have a “asset” if it offers no real deterrence? It’s a waste of money. In today’s budget climate we need to think about how “effective” our systems really our, not what we “wish” to think.

Actually they are more afraid of the missiles because of the use’em or lose’em aspect…

we’ve had a triad for decades for a reason, for multiple options to ensure strategic deterrence, times may be tight but putting all your eggs in the sub basket is one helluva gamble…

But following the central tenet of the article, the AF & Navy SHOULD cooperate on a joint missile, if it can handle being an SLBM then there is no reason that it can’t be an ICBM also (with a bigger motor for longer range of course)

Just reviewed your source and before the table where you are pulling the 90% figure (and that is just the pessimistic figure not necessarily what would happen), if I read Table A-1 and the Results section following the Assumptions, I see that you still have 240 warheads remaining following an SLBM attack first strike, you don’t think that having a remaining 240 warheads deliverable following a first strike as part of the total force triad is a good idea or worthy of funding?

Give me a ping Vasily, one ping only…

The Arabs are striving for their nuclear weapons their reason are their own but our interest are at stake I like the idea of having enough nuclear weapons to make that region glass, great deterrent for idiots that think they have gods will be on their side to kill with impunity, it might make them stop and think just how many martyrs they will have if they do attack.

Transition responsiblity for the current Minuteman III ICBM (and its replacement) from the Air Force to the Navy, while also providing funding for strategic systems separate from the rest of the Navy budget, and the Navy will be well motivated to develop significant commonality in a replacement missile program, sharing guidance and fire control systems at a minimum.

I feel the Father, Son & Holy Ghost (Triad) system is what helped win the cold war and should be keep in place. The use of the best, common, new tech aspects should be incorporated together with the Navy and USAF land/mobile/air based systems. MAD, worked for a reason, it would be mad, not to reason, and to build our next system without common logistics, infrastructure and most of all lean component’s such as guidance, warheads and stretchable booster engine packages for extended range. IMHO !!!

What about the Chinese and their 3000 miles of tunnels. How many weapons do they have. HMMM? I dont think we need to worry about the Russians very much.

One simple fact: No two nuclear armed countries have ever gone to war, even Pakistan and India have grown up a little. Get rid of nukes completely? out of the question, no matter what the “dreamers” think.

The UK certainly don’t want to get rid of theirs, they haven’t ring-fenced the trident replacement cash off but a replacement is still well and truly on the cards. Just not until they are out of the budget hole Brown and Blair dug them into.

There are good reasons to have common R&T,to start with, between Navy and Air Force on strategic –and cruise– missiles.
There are better reasons to have common R&D: the savings are much higher, and there is no visible need to develop different launch systems, solid propellant stages, electronics, not to speak of warheads, busses or penetration aids,when the targets, and the ballistics to get there, are the same.
I am not Jonathan Swift , and, worse, I’m French, but I have a Modest Proposal:
–Set up a single Program Office in DoD,
–Fund a single missile architect, as you will not have the money to sustain two design bureaus for ever.
It works here ; it even works for airplanes…but this is another story.

Do a google search on DARPA project ArcLight,

Should have started build the new missile/s during the Bushes era.

“how might it look to Americans and the world if Washington began building a new generation of nuclear weapons?”

Just explain that we’re decommissioning old nukes at the same time we’re building new ones, that the only reason we’re building new ones at all is that the service life of the old nukes is running out, and that our arsenal would either stay the same size or actually shrink.

“On Wednesday, former Strategic Command boss retired Adm. Rich Mies excoriated “Countdown to Zero” types, almost mocking abolitionists’ dream of a nuke-free world. Peace, he said? You like peace? What do you think has prevented a major global conflict since World War II? It ain’t the milk of human kindness – it’s the threat of massive retaliation.”

To be fair, the world actually has gotten more peaceful. There’s fewer wars, and less killing in those wars that do occur. Globalization, trade, and the growing interconnectedness of the world has made it so that any instigator of conflict will be judged in the court of world opinion, which then can become the catalyst for military action depending on the severity of the transgression. Just look at what happened to Saddam in 1991, and Gadhafi last year.

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