The defense “jobs” conundrum

The defense “jobs” conundrum

As we’re hearing at lot up on the Hill these days, defense spending supports countless jobs across the U.S.

So if the full Doomsday budget guillotine is allowed to fall, 1 million people could be out of work, warns House Armed Services Committee Chairman Rep. Buck McKeon. The U.S. unemployment rate could go up to 10 percent or more if DoD’s budget is cut too deeply, he says.

Completely plausible, wrote the New York Times’ Paul Krugman on Monday — defense spending is a key plank of local economies around the country. But, he wondered, why do McKeon and other defense advocates acknowledge the economic benefits of the DoD budget at the same time as they oppose other attempts to use federal spending to create jobs?


Wrote Krugman:

McKeon, Republican of California, once attacked the Obama stimulus plan because “more spending is not what California or this country needs.” But two weeks ago, writing in The Wall Street Journal, Mr. McKeon … warned that the defense cuts that are scheduled to take place if the supercommittee fails to agree would eliminate jobs and raise the unemployment rate. Oh, the hypocrisy! But what makes this particular form of hypocrisy so enduring?

Krugman goes on to answer his own question:

For one thing, to admit that public spending on useful projects can create jobs is to admit that such spending can in fact do good, that sometimes government is the solution, not the problem. Fear that voters might reach the same conclusion is, I’d argue, the main reason the right has always seen Keynesian economics as a leftist doctrine, when it’s actually nothing of the sort. However, spending on useless or, even better, destructive projects doesn’t present conservatives with the same problem

… I welcome the sudden upsurge in weaponized Keynesianism, which is revealing the reality behind our political debates. At a fundamental level, the opponents of any serious job-creation program know perfectly well that such a program would probably work, for the same reason that defense cuts would raise unemployment. But they don’t want voters to know what they know, because that would hurt their larger agenda — keeping regulation and taxes on the wealthy at bay.

“Hypocrisy” is a pretty strong word — what defense advocates argue is that national security is different from social programs or transportation or the other ways government spending can benefit people. So DoD’s budget keeps people employed? Fine, they’d say, but that’s not its purpose. It’s the Washington phenomenon of selective cynicism: My motivations are pure but yours are venal.

There’s another element here that Krugman doesn’t address, but it’s telling by its absence in his column: McKeon, the defense industry and its advocates have spent months trying to get the nation’s attention to help stave off their feared DoD budget cuts. Warnings about threats from cyber-attacks or China didn’t work. Warnings about tomorrow’s “hollow force” didn’t work. What got Krugman to write was the J-word — the magic keyword for this presidential election cycle. Don’t be surprised if we keep hearing about this a lot more.

 

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So we’re are going to pay for the economic stimulus by cutting defense. Wonderful. So we cut good paying, formerly permanent, defense jobs to create temporary low paying jobs. Doing what we don’t know. Making what, oh yeh, about the only thing we make here are defense products, so we won’t be making anything either. And yeh, those defense and aerospace jobs actually are one of the very few market sectors that have a international trade surplus. So we will increase the trade imbalance further.

What will we end up with? A bigger trade imbalance and more people ultimately out of work and less of a tax base to pay for government operations. Oh and while that is happening we will further erode our military as threats see this as an opportunity to flurish. Sounds like a great plan.

The distinction between job generating spending such as in the case of the DoD budget and that of stimulus spending is that the stimulus just gave money to companies for no particular reason while the DoD is buying research and actual physical returns such as materiale. To show the distinction if the stimulus had been thought out to create jobs they would have done something like replacing the Government motor pool with hybrid vehicles… thus purchasing over several years 200,000 high end vehicles that will eventually save Government money, both proping up those industries while actually making a longterm return.

Yes, other federal programs dose make work but NONE of those jobs is as vital nor have the same consequences for the defense of this nation and our lifestyle as cutting defense and then come a time that the US needs it. In the wars past there has been time to ramp up the defense to meet the need. In today’s world that will not be the situation.

Would you “bad” programs within the defense portfolio while keeping the top line steady or slightly increasing (for inflation)?

Yes, we need to start running military acquisition in a way to yield more dependable results. JCIDS was supposed to help do this (at the expence of expediency). Unfortunately many programs are still poorly conveived and many are poorly run. There is a lot of waste in the system and a lot of poor program results.

So my point isn’t to just spend to spend, we need to maximize value and be smart buyers. Ther are many needs that never get addressed because of costs overruns sucking up so many resources.

That said there are well run and well executed programs that have helped to make our military the best in the world. When very good weapons are provided to well trained professional and motivated military services the results are astounding.

Cool. my view is that the military is underfunded and there are horrifying gaps between what our military is supposed to be able to do (on paper) vs reality. at the same time there is horrifying waste. if we increase DoD’s budget sharply (post 9–11 example) though, we get more waste and we will never have an organization that learns to live within a budget. BUT if you cut defense, you increase the risk of, like a potential implosion of the whole system. so my reasoning is that everyone needs to tighten their belts and live within a slowly increasing topline budget, learn how to keep stakeholders satisfied, cut back on the wars (make them more clandestine with less footprint), and recapitalize sensibly. One thing I don’t understand though, is how DoD can expect anyone to take them seriously that they can manage anything properly as long as F-35 continues. If F-35 with its gaping mismanagement issues is surviving due to politics, then the only conclusion that can be drawn is that only politics matters.

Unlike other industries, the defense business is dependent on one source of funding and that is the military spending budget. There is no other market for these goods unless paid for and/or sanctioned by the USG for our allies. It is a unique manufacturing and engineering environment requiring skills that can only come from experience in meeting defense requirements. It supports the one concrete Constitutional responsibility of government that Congress must provide funding. The risks inherent in shrinking the industrial base will be the inability to rapidly respond to future threats. We fell into that trap following each of the WW’s, Viet Nam and colllapse of the USSR.

what about arms export where authorized by law? plus defense contractors can and should be diversifying into homeland security, energy, green technology, etc. Given the shakiness of your premise, its hard to have confidence in your conclusions.

Ewing: “[W]hat defense advocates argue is that national security is different from social programs or transportation or the other ways government spending can benefit people…”

If this were true — if it were really about the national security risk — then these Congressmen would not argue against cutting programs that are known to be useless or poor investments, from a national security point of view. And yet they defend such programs stridently, if those programs feed their own districts/states. It has nothing to do with national security, and everything to do with campaign funding and votes.

This type of language just blows me away “we need to maximize value and be smart buyers”.

How on earth are we to be smart buyers when normal market feedback mechanisms in a free market system — namely, bad companies, products, inefficiency get eliminated via competition — are eliminated by the government deciding what it wants and then commanding some private company to build it.

We readily point out how command economies fail but then wonder in amazement when a virtual analog of one in defense spending suffers similar fates.

Defense spending isn’t an industry stimulus it’s a social welfare system. It about picking capitalism’s losers and propping them up while at the same time training tens of thousands of engineers how to be lazy and stupid.

And of all the welfare systems it is by far the least efficient.

Arms exports must be sanctioned/approved by the USG. It is one source of revenue, however not many foriegn nations can afford the sophisticated systems that are made for specific threats encountered by our military. Homeland defense does not need $1M plus combat vehicles to perform their mission, they can use a $40K truck. Diversifcation of the product portfolio is an option, but good businesses stick to their core competencies; i.e. heavy manufacturing/welding/fabrication, complex systems integration, etc. A truck manufacturer cannot build a tank and a heavy combat vehicle producer doesn’t do well on radars and sensors.

The Defence budget does need to be cut drasticly, and this is coming from a retired VET. But what needs to be cut is the foreign military aid, foreign economic aid, UN & NATO funding that comes out of the defence budget and leave alone what goes to the United States ARMY — NAVY — AIRFORCE and MARINES. protect the funding of those that protect us and cut the giveaway of American taxpayers funds to other countries toward no benefit to the taxpayers. Stop calling it a defence budget and statrt calling it what it is supposed to be “teh US military budget” matbe then folks will see how little the US military actualy got out of the past budgets.

Maybe what we need to do is be willing to buy five things and let two of them fail, instead of buying two things for 3x the cost and being “assured” that they won’t fail.

I love Krugman’s attitude that $80,000 on a union ditch-digger and $80,000 on a rocket scientist are exactly the same quality of investment because it’s the same dollar value. Because, y’know, ditch-diggers and rocket scientists provide exactly the same value to a nation.

I am trying to determine who you are trying to impress with the lazy and stupid accusation. It is not the people doing the work, however. We are just attempting to deliver killing machines that have no match in the world. Hopefully the capability is enough so dictators and despots refrain from messing with us. If lazy and stupid people made the F-22, it must be much easier than we thought. It is just a suggestion, but if your intention is to motivate us to excellence, calling us lazy and stupid is not going to be successful. I am about to get on the “efficient” welfare system. You can then support me and get nothing for it. WooHoo! that’s the gravy train, by golly.

You really are pathetic. You obviously hate all aspects of defense and the military. In all this time under this handle, and previously as OBLAT, you have never provided a comment of any substance or intelect. Just the nonsensical ramblings of a complete lunatic. What is your goal? Why are you here. Why don’t you just go away.

Guess I’m not allowed to disagree with itfunk, huh? I guess we “lazy and stupid” aerospace engineers that make up a significant part of your readership just need to accept the fact that our replies to the nonsensical flak spewed by nutjobs like itfunk will just be removed. Yep, he can make personal attacks on aerospace engineers without the risk of a rebuttal thanks to your hypocrisy and censorship.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity… or bad programming. The board eats posts sometimes for no reason. Chill.

Sometimes you need rockets, sometimes you need ditches. Actually, we need a lot more ditches and infrastructure construction in general right now than we need rockets.

No

What bureaucrat’s butt do I kiss to get one of those ditch digger jobs after doing single seat fighters for 30+ years? Let’s see. I will need government agency certification of my ditch digging capabilities before I can lean on my shovel with the proper confidence. Maybe a government education loan and a government training program is what I need before building the infrastructure. Will you look at all these jobs created by killing one defense job? It’s an economic miracle. At least three votes are bought for the money instead of one. That’s efficiency.

Giving someone money and expecting nothing for it is more efficient than providing a company with a profit incentive to drag out a contract and jack up the cost of a weapon. If you give someone money, their time is their own and they are equally capable of doing either something wonderful or something stupid. If you provide them with a profit incentive to do something stupid, then you have clearly biased the situation toward stupiditiy. Well, that is if you think the principles of capitalism have any merit at all, which clearly most Americans don’t or they wouldn’t let their government buy weapons this way.

The effectiveness of their work is the same both make a hole in the ground one just takes longer ooperationally and the other in the constructions of a rocket if it is ever complete.

You sound upset. If the government doesn’t work for us, that’s OUR fault, and it’s our responsibility to fix it!

No matter how hard they try they just can’t get their head around the concept that failure shouldn’t be rewarded at all. We shouldn’t buy 2 failures at all. Let those that fail pay for it

For once, I agree with the Duck. Failure is part of the human condition, and we need systems that tolerate it and learn from it without being harmed by failures. Compartmentalize the damage, spread the success around.

I’ve seen this sort of histronics repeatedly. It’s basically just an as s covering manouver. Usually after the candidate is asked what they did for the last decade except for covering their as s.

Just ask the executives of all the defence contractors what they think of third workforces skills and they will tell you, its skills that can’t be applied out side of the pay for failure industry.

They would love to diversify but they can’t.

Maybe it has something to do with that whole “provide for the Common Defense” thing. If Mr. Krugman would read the Constitution, he’d discover that Defense spending is actually consistent with the constitutional role of our limited government. “Pump priming” and payoffs to UAW, public sector unions, and bankrupt state governments…not so much.

It does sound like our National Defense is turning into a jobs program.
We no longer have any leadership at any level. What DoD builds and sends to the field is 50% crap. We promote leaders of failed programs instead of bumping them back to the ground level.

Until we can expect accountability at all levels we will continue to waster billions and get little to show for it..

Maybe we can turn rocket scientist into bridge builders and can focus on getting at least our infrastructure up to par. But then again we would still have the same leaders who push crap out the door so none of us would dare drive over the bridges.

So when the framers of the US Constitution said that the federal government was to “provide for the common defense” they actually meant that the federal government should provide contractors a profit incentive to fail? That’s not “providing for the common defense”. It is betraying this country. What our government does with our tax dollars is by no means constitutional, so you can stop waiving that flag right now.

You have to understand that sociologically these are just rats fighting over crumbs. The military allows poor and working class Americans their only chance to pretend to be middle class without the bother of being productive enough. The alternative is the world of “poorly paid public sector jobs working for bankrupt state governments” that these people are desperate to leave behind.

Its emblematic of our class system that NavyDude knows his place — he envies and fears the fat cats because they are a world away what he really loathes are the other rats.

And itfunk AKA Oblat shows his hatred of the military once more. “WIthout the bother of being productive enough.” Because I guess Oblat here contributes SO much more to the world than those fighting on behalf of our nation… right…

Tell us Oblat, what do you do that is so much more important than aerospace engineers and other people who actually contribute to society unlike yourself?

As one with nearly 15 years federal government service (12 with the DoD), I’m sickened every ttime I read a GAO or OMB report about a failed major program. Of course, that’s balanced with many successful programs. If the DoD would truly implement portfolio management “by the book”, then budget cuts wouldn’t have such a dramatic impact. Meanwhile, though, the thing that kills me is that the cuts have been, and will be according to what I heard SecDef plans, far too deep. It simply doesn’t pass the Constitution test…the first purpose of the USG is defense! In fact, if Congress were to establish a completely Constitutionally-based federal budget, we’d have NO need for a supercommittee, and we’d have NO need for this article and discussion!

If the Government did a Business Case Analysis, which is the in thing to do now-a-days, you would see that the government would lose BILLIONS of dollars in Income Tax, Social Security and Medicaid. We in the Defense industry is what is keeping the economy going. Look what happened when Jimmy Boy did almost the same thing back when he was Prez, Jobs lost not only in defense but other areas like housing, retail business etc. We as a Nation can not afford to Government Welfare programs that encourage people Not to Work and Pay Taxes

Remember it is written that the Government will Provide for the Common Defense and Promote General Welfare, where the DemoCRATS want to Provide General Welfare and Promote Common Defense, what do you except from a President and DemocRATS in congress that believes the constitution is wrong.

No the first let alone the only purpose of the government is not defense, just because you think providing you with a sinecure should be it’s first purpose doesn’t make it so.

The Federal government is not “provid[ing] for the common defense” when they pay contractors a profit incentive to fail at weapons development? That’s not “providing for the common defense”. It is betraying this country. It is being a poor steward of the tax dollars that have been entrusted to them. It is by no means constitutional. Being a traitor to the United States of America is not constitutional, it is not protected by the US constitution in any way.

Except in the original meaning the word welfare meant the well being ( every one treated and given the same opportunities). Not the type of welfare we have today. If 52% more of America was working and paying taxes we would be a lot better off.

Maybe but the federal government does an even worse job of controlling contracts in the cival sector where contractors make greater profits and produce less, like bridges to nowhere and 60 miliion to fill in pot holes on a 5 mile stretch of the Nj turnpike.

You say that because this kind of waste is highly visible, but the reality is that the amount spent by the states (typically the federal government is not involved in road projects except when it involves interstate freeways) is peanuts compared to what is wasted on a single Air Force jet fighter program. Generally though, if you see government waste where contractors are dragging out projects, it is because they have negotiated contract terms similar to those used by the Department of Defense for the development of weapons.

And I thought that I was a harsh judge of those who would personally profit from the “system”!

I might say “Shame, shame!” to a contractor that made “too much” profit on a successful program (whatever might seem to be too much at the time!), but.… the contractor is just trying (perhaps excessively) to make a profit, and that is the basic cornerstone of our free enterprise economy. If you want to bring out the “traitor” term, apply that to those that would defraud the US taxpayer, and I include those who “manage” the system to their own personal gain, whether that be the gross cases (the Druyan affair comes to mind), the less flagrant, such as the events coming to light about Murtha and his cronies, or the government PM that pushes important issues under the table and spins the truth so that he can play the POM game on an even ground with all of the other PMs looking for the good OER or promotion.

the 60 mil on the turn pike was stimulus money, 4 guys with a dump truck and shovels. then take a look back at solindra and a couple other solar green projects down the tube — then google govt funded research and look at the trillion plus for BS, each funded program of the roughly 200 probably employs at most 4 to 6 people. The fed waste far more money than the military itself.

From your fingertips to the Supreme Court! LOL!

Very little about the DoD systems acquisition process would really stand the harsh light of “by the book” business management. For example, in a well managed business, how much should be spent on “monitoring and control” functions? Within government procurements, and DoD procurements in particular, how much of the budget for a given program is spent on producing and reviewing reports and briefings specifically designed to “monitor and control” the acquisition process?

A friend had an app on his laptop that allowed one to enter the number of people in a meeting, the percent that were TDY, the average paygrade, and the local Per Diem and it would tote up, in the corner of his screen and on a minute by minute basis, the cost of a meeting as we sat there. It was humbling. I suspect that we need to have a new law, regulation or policy prohibiting such apps and setting up a reporting and monitoring system (SES chaired) to verify compliance!

(Warning, warning, Will Robinson! Sarcasm is staining the floor under this one!)

If they were serious about wanting to create jobs they would first implace the flat tax system and put a tarrif on all imports of 20% retail (even on chrysler — gm — and ford ) this would make it cheaper for them to reopen or build new plants in the US. It worked in the 80’s getting honda — yamaha — suzuki — toyota and a bunch of others to open factories here to beat the cost of imprting. Hit them in thier pocket books and they will bring the factories back from over seas. But what states have to realize is when they come back it will be to right to work and not union states. Toyota in Texas pays less than the US big 3, but they have on site family medical — dental — child care — and fitness at no cost to employees.

Back under your bridge, Mr ITFUNK/TROLL! Stick to scaring little girls and old men!

Have you even READ the U.S Constitution, itfunk???

The unfortunate fact is that our Constitution hands Congress the right to make the laws of the land, so… because the Constitution does not SPECIFICALLY prohibit such things, Congress can make those things happen. Of course the Constitution does provide specifically and incontrovertably for the periodic re-election (or not!) of Congressional representatives. Perhaps some of them need to be reminded of that fact.…. :-)

Found this on the Constitution

Preamble
We the People(1) of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare(2), and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
________________________________________
Notes:
1.The Preamble declares that: “We the People of the United States .… do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.” The meaning is clear that all authority originates from the People.
2.The meaning of the word Welfare in the Constitution is different from its current usage. The constitutional meaning of welfare is: 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being. [<ME wel faren, to fare well

Second part

Welfare in today’s context also means organized efforts on the part of public or private organizations to benefit the poor, or simply public assistance. This is not the meaning of the word as used in the Constitution.
For clarity and simplicity, the word “well-being” is generally used in place of “Welfare” in this web site

The only reson why weapons systems fail is because the Government in their infinite wisdom does what is called “Scope Creep”, theses creeps is what causes a lot of system to fail or cost more. I know the major defense contractors are concerned about the GI as a lot of their employees have sons and daughter that are serving and they have a lot of military retirees working for them to try and stop that image you gave. We care about those who serve and want them to come back alive.

Sure, it’s all about those pesky requirments creeping all around. It almost makes you wonder why we have requirements, a bunch of Byzantine “shall” statements that confuse more issues than they illuminate. Oh yeah, we use “shall” statements because this was a better way to do things than by using CAD drawings and computer models. After all, both gornment and their contractors agreed this was the case. Surely you’re not suggesting they were wrong?

And I’m certain that the fact defense companies keep making record profits despite the fact that the number of programs they have on schedule and on budget has dropped to zero is purely a happy coincidence. Certainly there has been no wrong doing by any defense contractor. Theirs are simply the lucky benefits of an unfortunate circumstance where those nasty old military people “scope creep” their requirements. Poor defense contractors. It makes you want to cry real tears for them.

I definitely concur with you on the tariffs. Personally, I think we should repeal the 16th amendment and force the federal government to live off of tariffs as they once did so that when communist China next tries to buy our “representatives” they’ll have to decide between cutting their own funding by reducing that tariff or lining their own pocket. We already know how they’ll vote when it comes to deciding between selling out their country and lining their own pockets.

ITfunk: Attitudes like yours are *why* everything the government buys costs so damn much. “Failure is unacceptable no matter the cost!”

I remember going to a design review where there were more government (customer) oversight representatives than there were contractor and subcontractor people COMBINED. They spared no expense to make sure we didn’t waste any money!

If you don’t want the contractor to get paid for contract extensions that’s fine.

You won’t get any weapons, because the development will stop when you cut the funding, but, well, you won’t have “paid a profit incentive for failure”. I guess that’s more important to you.

Yes a common mistake and probably why mrcpuhead thought he was living in a socialist workers paradise and just needed to turn up to collect the check.

“Just trying to make a profit” is no excuse for fraud, these are the excuses of the all to contractor criminal mindset.

You could get weapons. You just couldn’t get custom development. You’d have to buy what a contractor is ready to produce.

This is a myth, a convenient excuse to blame the customer — show me the scope creep in the F-35 disaster — the scope has been steadily been pulled back it’s entire development.

We already know what happens when you raise tariffs in a slowing economy, all the import and eventually export jobs are lost.

Without even looking at technical requirements, F-35 scope creep can be seen in the congressional funding cuts that started in the FIRST YEAR OF THE CONTRACT. Before there were any metal being bent, the Congress needed some of the F-35 money and so “pushed out” money and tasks to the next year. That in turn pushed everything else out and added a year to the schedule again, BEFORE ANYTHING WAS EVEN DESIGNED. That year includes many so called “fixed costs” including the Quality Assurance and Systems Engineering Management as well as Program management, Finance and other functions that have to provide control and reporting for every month of every year that the program is in existance. When the government signs a contract that has a schedule attached to it and then fails to provide funding at the appropriate intervals, the program pushes out and costs increase.

To say nothing of the trade war that would start and how we would lock our selves out of developing markets,

The phrase and it’s meaning was debated even by the founding fathers. It has more or less to do with how and why money should be raised and used by the US government. It doesn’t advocate social welfare spending but it doesn’t preclude it either. It essentially says our government can’t just tax us for the heck of it and whatever money they do take should be used for the sake of all of us. So we have to decide for ourselves where and how to allocate money there is no magic phrase from the founding fathers to do it for us. I do tend to agree that since defense is mentioned specifically it is the last place we should look for savings.

Contractor failure to perform to the agreed schedule isn’t “scope creep”.

And the review was of course conducted at your facility, so… travel + TDY + socializing time + ….…

I suggested this on an earlier thread, but I’ll toss it out again. What if all of the reporting and progress checking, and institutionalized meddling, was simply eliminated until the start of IOT&E! Give the contractor his contract, let him execute unmolested, and see what you get…. of course it would not be complete liassez-faire and there would be STEEP recovery clauses if the product didn’t meet the V&V or IOT&E requirements (and very stiff criminal penalties for anything even seeming to be fraud!).

If you did nothing but cut the govenment oversight to the bare minimum of verifying the end product meets spec and then satisfies the original user requirements, what would the cost of the program be.… (reference the cost and timeline of projects developed through the OLD Lockheed Skunk Works to conventional “overseen” programs).

Beeeeeeeeeeeep! The welcome sound of itfunk rapidly departing local .…

I seriously dout it, we are the largest consumers in the world — nowhere else will you find flat screen TV’s and game systsems in nearly every room of the house — American Kitchens are larger and better equipped than most countries restraunt kitchens — Americans own more vehicles per household than any other country — along with all the other items we buy just to have them. No country is gonna give up that market just like they didnt in the 80’s when many moved their factories over here to stay in the game or contended with the tarrifs. We pay tarrifs in almost every country in the world we import into so why shouldnt they? And if they do get whiny, there is nothing we get from over seas that we cant produce here from the start in regards to produce — products and energy which most other countries cant claim.

There is only one way to solve this problem. Cut out the middlemen (amc, dla, gsa)out of the acqusition process. All we have to do is authorize credit lines to warfighters so they can purchase their gear online and through full and open competitive websites. Its the waste stupid that is killing this country, not lazy or stupid workers. Competition is what made our country great. Why is DoD afraid of competition? Competition is similar to transparency, it highlights the corruption and waste. This is the exact reason why there is zero transparency, even with non-secret programs at DoD and many agencies. The militec plan will balance the budget without cuts to welfare of defense. http://​www​.militec​.blogspot​.com

Cool concept. I wish you well on your mission. While I agree that there are serious problems with acquisitions (root cause is with leadership decisions), I do not think a draconian cut is either feasible given the current body of law & politics, nor a good course of action because of the immeasurable harm that such a COA would create. Ever heard of “don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater?” I very much agree with you about how bad waste is, but there are even greater threats to the country. Financial shock, currency collapse, economic depression, terrorism, and global war come to mind.

Need to cut certain bases over seas that carry no strategic goal in todays fight or security. Certain countries like Italy we operate small facilities that cost too much tax payer money i.e. Camp Darby and other small out post in Italy. Keepthe Naples and move Army/AF into Naple if needed. Now you have air power on ships and ground and army ground forces for more security. There needs to be a trim in Italy. Continue to down sze in Germany but keep Graf and Wiesbaden area and a port.

We need to stop wasting money at cold war spots.

While congress keep hampering on trimming the budget. Why not start with yourselves. For starters bring down your retirement benefits to match those of this nations military forces. The way I see it, tht within itself would save billions over the next ten years. While you all are getting 100% of your pay after serving 3–6 years, why not cut your benefits the same way of this nations finest. And oh, by the way, you voted to increase your salary by 35% in 1986 while turning down a 3% for the military. I called that and everything else you have done “lining your own pockets”.

Government failure to provide contractually required funding or material (GFE/GFI) is scope creep and totally recoverable.

Which contractor has zero programs on schedule and on budget. Remember, each of the major primes has literally thousands of programs.

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