The year of the chopping block

The year of the chopping block

By recent Pentagon tradition, the early part of a new calendar year is a bad time to be an under-performing defense program.

Future Combat Systems, the F-22, the Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle, CG(X) and other bold-faced names all have met their end in Defense Department announcements within a few weeks or months of New Year’s Day. Former Secretary Gates liked to set the agenda before each year’s budget submission to Congress, and for the most part, it worked: Despite angry hearings and cranky lawmakers, much of what Gates wanted stricken ended up staying that way.

Now, with a new year and a new SecDef, the signs are pointing to another installment in the yearly scythe swinging. Pentagon Press Secretary George Little said early in December that Secretary Panetta would roll out DoD’s long-awaited mega-review next month, which will cover the Building’s view of how it will absorb $450 billion in budget reductions over the coming decade.


“I’m not going to get into speculation on the strategy at this point,” Little said, “but I can tell you that the process has been methodical and thorough. It’s been led by civilian and military leaders inside this department.  And naturally, we’re getting close to making some of those decisions in early 2012.  And as I said, the secretary will have something to say on that in January.”

The key difference between Panetta’s rollout and Gates’ announcements was that Gates was trying to prevent what ended up taking place: Big waves of reduced growth imposed from across the river, beyond what the Pentagon itself was offering up to placate budget hawks. So even though Panetta’s announcement will be the third consecutive year a secretary of defense has come out before the cameras and rattled off winners and losers, it will be in a class by itself.

By all appearances, Panetta has to walk a strange tightrope: He’ll have a report that embraces some big budget reductions — or at least acknowledges them — and yet does not acknowledge the possibility of a second, bigger round starting in January 2013. He’ll most likely repeat his warnings that the second round, as part of “sequestration,” will leave the U.S. military a hollow force, paper tiger, yadda yadda yadda. And yet he may also repeat his opposition to Congress voiding sequestration or exempting the Pentagon’s budget, part of the White House’s bid to keep up pressure for a “comprehensive deal” to cut $1.2 trillion from the deficit.

So we could be going into a year in which the ax falls twice: First next month with whatever Panetta announces about roles, missions and programs, and then again 12 months later, if Congress and the White House can’t resolve their staring contest about sequestration.

In the meantime, unless Panetta’s announcement includes a no-kidding list of programs and priorities set aside as part of DoD’s new look, almost everything could be in the crosshairs.

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hate to disagree but the Army and Marines (and even the Navy and Air Force) are going to get those big savings by laying off Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines.

People are the biggest cost driver in the military…Congress caused this wreck by continuing to give raises (although deserved probably unnecessary due to the economy) and the problem can be traced back to even the prior administration.

inflated pay. increased medical costs. retirement costs. its the same issues facing private industry. you can bet that the only solution will be to cut people. programs are safe. either they’re vital or theres too much pork attached to it. you heard it here first.

Inflated pay?!?! Finally I DO NOT qualify for food stamps, and I have 2 children. I can afford to live in a neibhorhood that doesn’t qualify for section 8 rent assistance from the state, and feel safe at night. This is after 8 years serving, working alot more than 40 hours a week, when I see others with less skills and training making more. Inflated… Really…

You either do not know how to manage your money correctly, or you have been an E-4 or below for all those years. I knew a SPC a couple of years back (he is now at least SFC) who had two children, did not live in “below section 8 housing” and ask for food stamps. He wasn’t the only one. So either you are not entirely being truthful, or you desperately need financial advice from Dave Ramsey.

Cutting doomed to fail r&d programs is a no brainer. Kill them and use them as billpayers for real defense requirements. Killing programs that made it to deployment, after we have endured the excrutiating agony of shepherding our junk through our byzantine development process, makes less sense. Cutting people’s pay is politically impossible. Keeping it flat and separating our dead wood from the force makes more sense. In this economy anyone who has a job period should be doggone happy. If you want more pay, merit it by promotion or assignment or performance. No one should get an automatic pay raise for doing the same job.

I’m a Marine Sgt that just hit my 8 yr mark a couple weeks ago. I have an autistic son, a car loan, a wife with PTSD, and I bought a house for over 160k back when I was a lowly Cpl back in 2007. No gov’t assistance (other than a VA home loan for the mortgage), no food stamps. No one else I work with has food stamps or section 8 rent assistance. I call shenanigans.

But that being said, solomon is smoking the fattest crack rock in the country if he says our pay is inflated. My friend has a similar job in the civilian world and he makes way more than I do.

you all are being emotional instead of rational. name one other sector in the US that has had pay raises every year for the past 10 years.

you can’t.

and that’s why the services are probably going to lay off about 300k people collectively. oh and you signed up to do your duty, not for the pay right?

oh and i’m sorry but i have to add this. in what other industry does someone get extra pay for having a family?

name one other industry where that occurs! you can’t. that’s why the military pay system is so jacked up. you can have two PFC’s that entered at the same time…have the same type of service…have the same disciplinary record (lets assume that its clean) and yet if one of them walked over a bridge and got gobbled up—married—then had kids, he would be paid at a higher rate than the other PFC who remained single.

additionally the married PFC rates base housing while the single one has to live in the barracks.

totally unfair but that’s how prehistoric the system is. and that’s not even adding in the last 4 years of economic hell the country has been in. the unemployment rate is probably closer to 16% except for accounting gimmicks the government uses.

while that was going on, recruiting has been booming…retention is bonkers…yet (repeating myself) pay raises have been issued every year. it makes no economic sense and anyone that has taken at least an honest look at the situation realizes that.

Name one other sector in the US economy that has been regularly shot at, blown up, and forced to separate for months at a time, in harsh conditions, far from family and friends, and be ready to go into combat on a moment’s notice, for the last 10 years!

In my humble opinion, its a simple matter of “earned” pay, where the money spent on the military payroll must be compared to the “free money” handed out via all of the entitlements, and the relative pay from the private sector for jobs requiring equivalent expertise and ability, with the other, already mentioned “benefits” tipping the scale to our men and women in uniform.

Ask yourself “What have the “entitlement” folk done to EARN their pay? ”

Furthermore, Im thinking that those who have not heard that distinctive little snap as a Taliban bullet passes by their ear should not be sending in too harsh of a judgement. Just my opinion of course! :-)

I think that I have an answer to your question! I will just call it the “entitlement” industry, since there seems to be a major cash flow in that direction.

If you want to say that the military “subsistance allowance” being tied to family size is such a major issue, what about the unmarried mother’s welfare check that is inflated by the number of babies? You might want to address that, or offer up an explanation of exactly what benefit to the country that unmarried mother is providing to earn that check in the first place,.… .… or perhaps you might need to be prepared to don the horsecollar of blatant hypocracy! :-)

Now, how about that “honest look”?

I’ve got to agree with Yellow Devil on this one. You need to do a better job of getting promoted or of budgeting your money.

You said that you have 2 kids so you qualify for BAH and what are you doing with all that money they give to you every month for rent? You’ve been in for at least 8 years so you would have to be an E-5 by now right? You’re doing ok by the national average on salary. Learn to make the most of it.

I hate to sound heartless but the problem isn’t with the system its with you. I lived very well when I was lower enlisted and I did it by being smart with my money, not by being Best Buys’ customer of the month. Don’t expect to live like a true player on the 1st and 15th and then wonder why a week later you have to choose which bill to skip.

The military, and its pay system in particular, is the closest our country gets to socialism.

Its not supposed to make sense to a capitalist thinking individual. Don’t spend too much time thinking about why, it will make your head hurt.

don’t assume my politics are liberal because they aren’t. i’m a libertarian. but the point remains. paying welfare moms because they pop out babies like pez dispensers is the same as paying a PFC more because he gets hitched up and makes babies.

sadly, the real issue is going to be this. you’re about to have a whole bunch of servicemen getting pink slips because the General’s didn’t give proper advice…look a little bit into the future and think wow…we’ve been having these boom years because of the war…maybe we need to get our house in order while times are flush so we can be ready when they aren’t. i have had to and will be ready if a storm hits. the military should have to.

oh and you can talk about the dangers, the separations etc…been there done that. but you have a choice and don’t have to re-enlist but like i said. re-enlistments are through the roof. boatspaces are few and far between…and its going to come back to the pay issue when the selection boards kick out grunts and keep clerks…

Im a libertarian, but…. dont let me think about it too much or I might be offended by some of your remarks. SO lets see… the military spawned all of the “happy days” that you have used to make yourself comfortable and now you begrudge paying them a decent salary and a subsistance allowance that allows them to feed, clothe and house their family? Hmmm…. .

thick skin so no worries, but again you’re being emotional instead of practical.

i don’t begrudge anyone a decent salary but you obviously don’t want to take the time, or you’re so busily engaged in phony patriotism that you haven’t taken the time to look at the Pentagon’s expense sheets.

everyone wants to point at expensive weapons programs but that isn’t the driver. i’m repeating myself again, but its personnel costs.

you can wag whatever flag, jump up on whatever podium, have 1000 plus marks besides your comments but it won’t change that fact. remember Rummy’s revolution of military affairs? remember Transformation?

it was all about reducing the number of service members and buying super hi-tech weaponry…not because it was necessarily more efficient but because it was less expensive over the long run. the train wreck in regards to the budget was seen way back then…and it was about personnel costs.

oh and you can bet that the solution to this issue with the defense budget will be solved with personnel cuts. weapon systems will be saved. they will toss a few programs to the Congress to give them red meat to show there constituents that they’re working hard but right after the election you’re going to see the pink slips. the only reason why you won’t see it now is because it will raise the unemployment rate. hell, the SecDef said so himself!

“Cheap” technology vs boots on the ground has been advanced several times over the last many years. Once we put all of our cookies in the satellite recce jar, only to find out that a fraction of those dollars could have obtained much better intel via old fashioned cloak and dagger ops (aka humint). THEN we had to try to figure out how to kick in doors and search buildings with UAVs… The powerpoint charts ALWAYS have to show a cost savings, unfortunately they only have to promise to accomplish the mission… one day…if the software works.… and the capabilities dont interfere with CPI or SPI.… . and miracles happen!

And I REALLY dont like that little dig about “phoney patriotism”. Perhaps good that we are not having this discussion in any one of several establishments, only a few being officer or NCO clubs, that come to mind.

I think that’s exactly backwards; you’re buying into the myth of sunk costs.

R&D programs are (relatively) cheap; cancelling them won’t pay the bills for anything except new R&D programs. R&D outside of a procurement program is actually cheapl; solving fundamental technical problems within an acquisition program is not.

On the other hand, ill-conceived procurement programs are a no-win situation. You’re never going to get what you needed — that is, a useful capability in useful quantities. Instead, you’ll either get a handful of fabulous systems, or nothing, depending on just how far you overreached technically. Even if you can salvage the program to produce something, it won’t be what you would have bought if you’d known in advance that the thing you wanted was impossible, and it will cost more than that capability should have. Kill it now and start over.

Besides, R&D is the tip of the iceberg. All of the real cost is in procurement and (especially) O&S, which the services carefully avoid reporting by program. The hidden cost of failed acquisition programs is there.

At the End it will all depends on the 2012 elections. And hear four possible Scenarios form the best to the worst Scenario.

1.Obama lose the election against Mitt Romney and the GOP takes the Senate.

As Consequence:
The DOD will not suffer the trigger cuts and it is also possible what a lot of the already decided cuts will be reversed, it is also possible what already killed programs like the DDG1000 or the F22 will come back in the face of the rising Chinese power.

2. Obama win the election against Mitt Romney but the GOP takes the Senate and hold the House.

As Consequence:
The Obama Administration will made a compromises how avoids the trigger cuts but cut the DOD possible a bit deeper them the already decided 500 Billion. So the USA will face slow decline of is Global Military power but still enable to dominate the Core regions like the Pacific and the Middle East.

3. Obama wins the election against Mitt Romney the Dems hold the Senate and takes the House back.

As Consequence:
The Trigger cuts will be replace by massive tax hikes and also by a larger cut on the DOD I think aditional 100–200 Billion over 10 Years to the already decided 500 Billion are realistic under this condition. So the USA will posible lose is status as the World leading Military World Power and many Programs like the F35 will face additional cuts how will possible starts a dead spiral.

4.Obama wins the election against Mitt Romney the Dems hold the Senate and the GOP holds the House.

As Consequence:
The Trigger cuts still in place and the USA will face a massive decline and the loss of his position as a real World Power. Or with other Words the American Century is over the Red Chinese,Neo imperail Russian/ Autocrat Century starts with all the bitter consequences for the free World.

Interesting.. but it is actually DoD that suffers from sunk cost fallacious thinking, not me. Don’t get me wrong, I am very supportive of basic and applied research. What I am not in favor of are programs with ridiculously long (10+ year) development phases from MS B to IOC. The funding appropriation used here is “RDT&E”. To clarify terms an “acquisition” program is the non recurring effort prior to O&M that makes use of primarily RDT&E and PROC appropriated funds. I think we are in agreement that ill conceived doomed to fail acquisition programs {your term procurement) are low hanging fruit for termination to free up resources.

The O&S argument is often repeated but a waste of time. O&S costs are apportioned to commands and are untraceable and unrecoverable. Frankly DoD leadership does nothing more than pay lip service to O&S cost management. These costs will be realized long after the seniors are retired or occupying lucrative jobs in industry. The more pressing concern for them are keeping doomed to fail acquisition programs (bogged down in spending RDT&E) alive… at any cost.

First of all, glad to see so many people commenting on a post that actually possess grammar skills! Now, just wanted to throw a few things out there:

–Cutting the troop levels is not going to kill the forces. The plan is to bring them down to pre-war levels, what really happens time will tell. We survived two wars for 8+ years while building the force at the same time, doing it again will not make us an inferior world power.

–As for those missing out on boatspaces or “getting the boot”, there’s a lot of internal rules changing to ensure it’s not a first come first serve basis, this way when the fat is trimmed, most of it will truly be the fat of the force (8 yr E-4’s mentioned earlier come to mind).

–Lastly, the pay disparity is killing me on some of these posts. Our pay raises directly reflect the rate of inflation… that is all. the big jumps in the late 90’s and early 2000’s was just for us to catch up to what we deserve, now it’s just keeping the line. a 1.3% raise is nothing fancy, just keeps milk in the fridge at the same pace it did the year before. As for the married personnel getting more pay than the single ones, there’s no “per baby benefit” other than they get insurance as well. You either have dependents or you dont, and you get a house or housing money to ensure they have a roof over their head. I don’t see an extra dime for having kids after already being married, so what’s the big hoopla over this. Sustanance allowance is for the servicemember only, and it’s a flat rate so they can eat where they live instead of the chow hall, not tied to family size. The ONLY difference family size makes is COLA if you just happen to live somewhere that rates it, and that is to offset disparities living wherever the hell that is (like Hawaii where milk is $8 a gallon).

Whatever the gripe is, the fact is, Iraq is over and Afghanistan is close to over as well, there’s no reason realistically or financially to keep the forces as big as they have grown. Hopefully those of you looking to stay in have been proven performers and not just looking for that guaranteed paycheck every four years when it comes time to sign your life away again.

We need to get back to the basics in a business like manner. We allow continuous failure with no retribution. In business failed programs with failed leadership get buried and made a lessons learned program. We need to do that in the DoD.
All the services have R&D programs for some very similar systems. A good example is helicopters. The Army, Navy and Air Force all have BlackHawk variants. Time to do an assessment on which program is better run and producing a better product. Make them the head agency for that systems R&D and procurement.
The Navy, Air Force, Army and Missile Defense agency all produce missiles. Same thing here: best service or agency wins. Performance and cost and schedule all are rated.
That way a service/agency will make sure they have technically competent leaders on the programs or they will see these programs go away.
As it is now a guy (or gal) with nothing more than an english or art degree is picked to lead very expensive and technical programs. If the program fails they get promoted and move to the next boondoggle.

You hit the nail on the head. Our societies failings are cultural, not governmental. The MBA and powerpoint engineering are killing us, both in the private sector, and in the defense sector. How many program managers have any inkling what modern computer programming is all about, when most weapon systems now require vast amounts of software?

Clovis, my friend, let me second the seconding from “guest”. Doing what you say would go a LONG way to trimming the fat from the procurement system and process. Its called ACCOUNTABILITY! (5X foot stomp!)

Of course there would be some very loud and profound squealing from the many “org charts”, both in DoD and in the business world, but then having often been called a Neanderthal for my low brow views on acqusition management, that sounds a lot like mastodon bacon on the hoof to me! :-).

Let me point out that there is no magic to the “pre-9/11″ troop levels, they were what they were, not because that number was right, it just was. Even if the troop levels prior to 9/11 did have that mystical “match” to the threat, todays threat is much different. The perceived threat prior to 9/11 was one succeptible to the “force multipler” voodoo of high technology systems. The threat we face today includes those “conventional” bad guys that can be countered and hopefully deterred by high technology, but the world also offers replays of OIF where “boots on the ground” were the only possible solution.

Now, hopefully with the wisdom gained from 10 years of asymetrical combat, how close to that “techno-optimized” manned-down military of pre-9/11 days would you care to go?

Obviously you are a republican. It is disingenious to suggest that just because President Obama remains in office, the U.S. will no longer retain its position as a superpower. Additionally, if you recall, it is not the democrats that are pushing the significant budget cuts… its the republican/tea party fanatics! Your comments reflect the same old BS… President Obama caused all of the mess that he is now trying to fix (NOT!!!) … with absolutely no help from the folks who caused the mess in the first place!

We’re all about to get a haircut but we can minimize it from just getting a flat top to having our heads shaved…

No pay increases for 2 years.
All dependents on Tricare Standard
Military Pension reform. 401k option, buyouts, possible 15 year pensions, etc…

Close half of all European DoD facilities.

Each service branch gives up one big item:
USAF loses either the B-52, B-1, or retires/mothballs half of it’s E-3.
USN loses the LCS.
USA draws down by 75000 or gives up half it’s heavy armor or artillery.
USMC gives up on the F-35B.

Just my thoughts on the LEAST BAD OPTION.

When I said “procurement programs”, I meant “acquisitions programs that are in the procurement phase”. But I accept your terminology. I also agree about 10+ year development, because those only happen when the requirements for the program are too ambitious. If we already know how to do it, it never takes 10 years to develop. If we don’t already know how, it shouldn’t be an acquisition program (yet) — it should be a concept development program, spending piddling R&D money and agnostic about what the final solution will look like.

Of course, DoD has also shown that they can screw up that model, too. JTRS had a DARPA predecessor that didn’t address the most difficult parts of the problem (security and scaling). Instead of doing more follow-on DARPA projects, they jumped directly to a multi-billion dollar fiasco that will never deliver more than a fraction of what was promised.

The excuse, as always, was “we can’t afford to wait that long” — as if going ahead with a sole-source cost-plus contract when you don’t know what you’re doing is somehow going to lead to success faster than learning how to do it right would.

Actually, the new defense bill has language in it requiring O&S reporting by program. It will be interesting to see if that survives, and if so how it gets implemented.

The accountability problem you note is huge, and was a major focus of the independent QDR review last year.

I am having a hard time envisioning the benefits of new / different O&S reporting requirements per legislative mandate, especially when considering opportunity costs of not applying resources to our infinite other problem areas. The complexity, controversy, and conflict in developing cost estimating structures and definitions of terms is mind boggling. Adding to the chaos is the inherent uncertainty in forecasting 10–20+ years into the future. What I do see is repeated attempts of gameplaying that our more expensive acquisition programs are justified by their ability to lower future O&S costs. I am sniffing out that this legislation may result in more analytical justification to maintain the status quo business model, which is to sell the taxpayer on underperforming, overbudget, late, gucci-high tech exotic systems, and underfund O&S. None of this gives you a DoD that actually can fight — when a war breaks out the taxpayer has to pay even more.

But without an accounting of actual O&S (O&M to us older coots), there is no accountablity for all of the “promises” made during the acquisition program. If so inclined, I could “manufacture” whatever long term savings necessary to keep my happy little “pet rock” program churning along, with not so much as a threat of being exposed as an “expander of truth”! It certainly would take some time, (beyond IOC) to have that feedback, but it might be just a tad embarassing, particularly if the “fabrications” were made very public and even perhaps had some impact on those retirement checks! LOL!

I don’t give a flip that he is trying to fix it when he has yet to present a good idea on how to fix it. The past 10 years we have been electing one incompetent gasbag after another, and now we complain that they can’t get anything done.…

Operations & training is actually the largest single area of spending in the military today; this year it was 283 billion dollars. Compare that to 140 billion for procurement and 154 billion for personnel costs. Seriously, Operations & Training consumed nearly HALF THE BUDGET by itself.

We do get paid awfully well nowadays, but saying personnel and procurement costs need to drop is just ignoring the real monster in the basement of how costly our current operational tempo is.
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I’m not a Republican and surly not a Democrat and this why both sides including the GOP has harm the defense. But it is clear what the Dems are the bigger threat for the Pentagon and the status of the USA as the leading World Power. The reality is also what both are irresponsible the GOP and the Dems but the Dems are really reedy to sacrifice the national Defense for nothing every other Program. The GOP is only so stupid to do this for their Anti-tax Ideology or better said their Tea Party Freshman class is ready to do this but this made a big difference. So the GOP wins and the GOP President is not a radical like Ron Paul the DOD will very probably be spare from the entire Trigger cuts and likely from a part of the already decided cuts. In contrast of that the Dems will no matter what happens, cut the Pentagon deeper and this only to satisfy their large Progressive Base and Caucasus and them the divided Situation what they have in the moment still the same the Trigger cuts will surly become reality.

And don’t forget what this cuts are so irresponsible and so dangerous like the planned cuts of Barney Frank and Ron Paul and the most people should know what loony idiots both are and what there politic and ideology is. So Ron Paul will isolate the USA from the rest of the World and Barney Frank will do everything to not reform the failed Medicare and Social Security System of the USA. So the only good news of 2011 for the GOP was what Communist Frank and isolationist Paul will disappear after more than 25 Years of anti DOD campaigning.

And let’s get realistic about Obama and Mitt Romney. First I don’t believe what Romney plan to build 16 Ships peer Year and to surge every part of the DOD including the Army and the USMC will become reality them he win but I sure what he will not do that Obama is ready to do. So Obama has already cut the DOD by nearly 800 Billion since he took the Office and he has heavy campaigning 2008 with large Defense cuts. And now he looks like to be ready to cut the DOD despite of the massive Warnings of his own democratic Defense Secretary how he also a known deficit hawk and this only to hurt the GOP.

And what is this for an insane concept? Why the so called “Super Committee” was not enable to generate a plan how include enough tax Hikes or a necessary reform of the Social Security System and why this happen, they destroy the US Military to punish the Political Class? But you really believe what one of this politician will suffer really pain? The only how feel the pain will be the hundreds of thousands of Soldiers and defense Workers how will lose their jobs and it also good possible what the USA will later pay for this with blood but you can also be sure what it will not be Obamas blood or the blood of the Politician class how is responsible for this. No it will be the blood of your Sons and daughters the blood of normal people! It sounds dramatic but exact this is going happen them the current Situation continues.

Good point. At what levels are OPTEMPO costs expected to bottom out? Also, has anyone looked at how simulation/gaming can provide an appropriate hedge against training costs? If everything is on the table, we need to understand these factors, too.

GIs earn 2–3 times more than comparable Americans. Google “high military pay” for the details. This is why our military must force people out.

Solomon, name an industry where there is a legal requirement to fill and retain an expanding number of positions in a dangerous and unpopular environment where big incentives aren’t involved. At the height of the war, the Army was trying to retain soldiers and fill newly created units. Ever heard of supply and demand? In the 2005–2006 timeframe, the recruitment and reenlistment bonus budget for the Army was close to $1 billion. Now it’s in the double digit millions. The military went through most of the 1990s with little in the way of cost of living adjustments during a time where the civilian economy was booming and everyone else was doing very well. Those raises were playing catch up and trying to keep soldiers in uniform during an unpopular war.

If you’ve seen Army recruiting commercials over the last 20 years, you’d know damn well they don’t recruit for “duty” but rather job experience and education benefits. The war wasn’t even mentioned in a recruiting commercial until 2008. Sad but true.

Americans have a very high standard of living compared to most countries, and the military is usually a difficult profession to fill. With a volunteer military, that means troops cost a lot of money to recruit and retain especially during an unpopular war. Now that the war is on the downswing, the Army is shedding troops at a programmed rate (at least until sequestration kicks in) and with the economy not doing well, it can afford to be choosy again. Retention was one of the biggest sources of stress for commanders for most of the war, but now it barely registers. When the Army was creating new units a few years ago, initial recruitment requirements were in the upper 80,000 range. Now it’s in the mid 70s. I had NCOs in my company who were used to having reenlistment money thrown at them by the Army. Now the Army is telling those same guys “take it or leave it, you’re no longer irreplaceable.”

A good place to start would be to note that the rates for unskilled labor have halved in the last 10 years and are still falling.

The real monster in the basement is the ongoing and unpaid cost of war in general. For decades, the continuing costs that persist long after a war has been paid by printing more money. Unfortunately, with the recession, those costs from past and current war have escalated to the point that we cannot possibly afford them.

Bring home troops from Europe and close the majority of bases. Close bases that are not really critical in other parts of the world.

Rethink how we are going to deal with present and future Mideast problems.

Upgrade and repair sorely neglected “infrastructure”, as a help in reducing the impact of the recession.

Remove totally unbelievable tax exemptions and offsets for “high rollers”. This includes raising the SSA deduction cap.

Change Farm subsidies to favor small farms instead of large corporate farms.

Medicare — - Medicare health insurance benefits become the minimum standard for medical insurance..

We don’t know what kind of aggression has been prevented by our European presence; just because the Cold War ended didn’t mean the bad guys stopped scheming. Our bases in Europe are probably just as much to prevent another WWI just as much to stop the Russians.…

All that said, I totally agree with everything else you said. If we don’t get a grip on our spending, this discussion will quickly become irrelevant.…

To prevent another WW1!?

What, is the EU not enough of an assurance for you?

Solomon is a DemocRAT Obama lover who whould rather have people on government social programs than provide for the common defense. Heck when I was an airman back in the early 70’s making 149 a month I still could not qualify for food stamps but everyone else did

He is a Ron Paul supporter who would let Iran have a nuke and put us all in danger. Thinking like that caused WW1 and WW2 guess libertarians are the people who put their head in the sand and hope nothing happens.

Guys if Obama wins the election and the DemocRATS take both houses, well you remember those pictures of the Russian people standing in line for food and stuff, that will happen to US. If we allow that to happen it will be all over as we will known be the United Socialists of American.

Exactly. You can’t control costs if you don’t even know what they are. The first step toward fixing the problem is to actually track what programs spend, so that you can learn where the money is going. Necessary, but very far from sufficient, if you ever want to be able to stop the death spiral of trading $1 in investment savings for $50 in increased O&S costs.

One thing they all seem to forget, once we get the 15 million people who were laidoff due to the Mis-management of the housing industry which was caused by Jimmy, Clintons, Franks and Dobbs back to working, paying income and SS taxes the ecomony will get better. When that happens if we can stop this entitlement mentally of some people and get them to work it will get better.

But just think of all of the “Whiz Kid” budget analyst and PM careers that this simple expedient would destroy! LOL! It might even make those “Meritorious Service Medals” harder to acquire if the “PowerPoint Promises” (often phrased along the same lines of “I’ll still respect you in the morning!”) had to be backed up with dollars saved on the bottom line.

Just look at the current procurements with all of the “rebaselining” and “program stretch outs” and the end result of those “fixes for today” expedient programmatic solutions and necessary enhancements for the PM’s annual performance report! Tell me that THOSE decisions were honest assessments looking beyond the quarterly balance sheets and the political “appearances”!

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