Updated: U.S., Saudis ink deal for Boeing F-15s

Updated: U.S., Saudis ink deal for Boeing F-15s

In a major coup for Boeing and its fighter business, Saudi Arabia and the U.S. announced Thursday they’ve agreed to a deal in which the kingdom would buy a large new batch of F-15s, as well as upgrades to its existing fleet.

Here’s what the White House said in its official statement:

Valued at $29.4 billion, this agreement includes production of 84 new aircraft and the modernization of 70 existing aircraft as well as munitions, spare parts, training, maintenance and logistics.  These F-15SA aircraft, manufactured by The Boeing Company, are among the most sophisticated and capable aircraft in the world.


This agreement will positively impact the U.S. economy and further advances the president’s commitment to create jobs by increasing exports.  According to industry experts, this agreement will support more than 50,000 American jobs, engaging 600 suppliers in 44 states, and providing $3.5 billion in annual economic impact to the U.S. economy.

This agreement reinforces the strong and enduring relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia, and demonstrates the U.S. commitment to a strong Saudi defense capability as a key component to regional security.

The deal has been in the works for months, and it’s the latest realization of Boeing’s hope to get as much mileage as possible out of its proven but aging combat aircraft portfolio. Rather than design a brand new airplane, the company has tried to upgrade and improve its F-15s and F/A-18s to sell as “low-risk” compromises between cost and performance.

UPDATE: State and Defense Department officials said in a briefing at the State Department on Thursday that Boeing will deliver the first new F-15 in early 2015 and the first upgraded jet in 2014. The fighters will come equipped with all the latest  refinements, including Active, Electronically-Scanned Array radars — nicer than many of the U.S. Air Force Eagles’s — and a full whack of other weapons and sensors.

These include a new “Advanced Electronic Warfare System;” new reconnaissance pods; HARMs; JDAMs; Harpoons; AIM-9X Sidewinders; and AIM-120 AMRAAMs, according to DoD. The deal also includes training for Saudi pilots and airmen alongside the U.S. Air Force, said James Miller, the principal deputy undersecretary of defense  for policy.

For its part, Boeing was pretty happy about the announcement. The company said this: “For Boeing, this agreement represents the continuation of an enduring partnership between the company and the Kingdom that dates back to 1945 when President Franklin D. Roosevelt presented a DC-3 Dakota airplane to King Abdulaziz Al-Saud, the founder of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia,” said company CEO  Jim McNerney. “We appreciate the efforts of the Obama Administration and the trust of King Abdullah’s government in finalizing the agreement, which will support tens of thousands of American jobs and help the Kingdom enhance its defense capabilities and diversify its workforce.”

So there you are. Miller and Assistant Secretary of State for Political-Military Affairs Andrew Shapiro said the timing of this announcement was coincidental with this week’s Iranian bluster and saber-rattling over the Strait of Hormuz, and not intended to send Iran a warning. The U.S. and Saudi governments signed their deal on Christmas Eve, the officials said, so they didn’t want to announce it then, and today was the day they just happened to get all their ducks in a row.

As for Israel, Shapiro told reporters that every Foreign Military Sale in the Middle East is reviewed against the U.S. policy that Israel maintain its “qualitative military edge” over potentially unfriendly neighbors. This F-15 sale passed that test, Shapiro said, though he said he would not describe what had been said in discussions between the U.S. and Israel.

There were other unanswered questions as well: Miller said he did not know whether the Saudis wanted GE or Pratt & Whitney engines for their new fighters, or whether the jets would be partly assembled in Saudi Arabia. Miller said those details are between Boeing and the Saudis, and the company did not immediately address them in its statement Thursday.

Miller also said he did not know what the target date was for the completion of the new production run, but he did say the “50,000 jobs” the deal will create in the U.S. would last for about 10 years.

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And why exactly were we all bemoaning Boeing’s sad and irrecoverable condition when the Japanese selected the F-35? LOL!

5+

There was discussion of Black Hawks and Apaches for Saudi Arabia as well. Is there any further news on that deal?

Good Morning Folks,

With all the unrest in the Middle East, and tyrannical governments being over thrown by popular protest we are selling arms to Middle Eastern countries. Just who is Saudi Arabia protecting itself against other the its own people who are showing that they are fed up with the oppressive monarch.

The sale of these aircraft by the a United States company with the approval of the government is nothing short of a criminal act.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Iran?

Yup. Definitely Iran.

Somehow I cant quite see F-15s being used to put down street protests… except perhaps in the streets of Tehran! LOL!

As for the Saudi monarchy.… the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and considering the neighborhood with which they are cursed, the Saudi crown and Saudi people need as many good friends these days as they can get… to go along with those Eagles of course and the stores to load on them… I think that they can provide the JP on their own! :-)

I would offer that the working middle class in SA are equally opposed to the Shia “closing Hormuz”. Though, in SA their paychecks would probably continue, from the government. The shutdown of their industries for lack of a distribution route would not be allowed. They would demand that their government “do something” and that “something” will be with the F-15SA. Also, lest you forget, Kuwait, Iraq and the Emirates also trade thru the Straits. The Shias are “Cruising for a Bruising” if they try to close the Straits, from their affected neighbors.

Allons, y’all,
RunningBear

Good for Boeing.……the UAE will most likely be next. The F4 still to this day is serving many foreign countries. The F15 is a superior fighter and many more will be sold.

that’s american choice

Anyone else think this is related to that whole “cutting off the Straits of Hormuz” thing that Iran was talking about?

Nah…

Not really a “sale”. Not quite the $30B for 10 years the generous U.S. taxpayer is on the hook for with Israel but if you remember at the same time that was announced (2007), Saudi Arabia got a deal with tens of billions over some years.
We buy oil from them. We buy weapons for them. Creative money laundering.
Be interesting to see the AESA config they will get. Either way it will be a nice big radar footprint and easier maintenance. Goofiness of the deal aside, I agree the announcement is good timing.

Had to go dig up a reference. Gives a good sanpshot. This from 2007:

“The Bush administration said last month that it was offering weapons aid to other countries in the region, including $20bn for Saudi Arabia, $13bn for Egypt and $20bn to be shared between Qatar, Bahrain, Oman and the United Arab Emirates.”

From the Baathist Broadcasting Corporation:
http://​goo​.gl/​v​T​CtG

Good Evening Folks,

I gotta love Thinking__Ex. USAF. Lets see Iran’s Air Force, fighters F-14A’s 44 (25 may still be in service, none of Iran’s Phoenix Missiles are in service) Mirage F-1 24 (gifts from Iraq in 1991, a few may be in exiting service, no spare parts), Mig 29C/UB 40 ( number operational unknown, were bought from the old Soviet Union), Chinese J6 18 (have been in service since the 1960’s Chinese version of the Mig 21), US F4-D/E (65 out of 225 bought in the 1960’s some still possibly in service, lack of spare parts and age of air frames make these F-4’s no threat), HESA 5 (Home made fighter plans to by 24 total)

And now for Saudi Arabia: F-15C 80, F-15D 25 F-15SE 72 (not the current purchase will put 84 additional in the Saudi AF), F-5E 83 Toronado’s 113 (going out of service) Typhoons T.2 84, T.3 48 (replacing Toronado’s.

Just by comparison of the size of the current Saudi Air Force excluding the 84 F-15SE’s that are order I wold say that the Saudi AF who’s pilots and ground crews are trained in the US would have nothing to worry about in an air war with Iran. The sales of 84 F-15SE’s into the middle east is excessive. Beside its own military Saudi Arabia also operated under the protection of the US 6th. Fleet.

On to the use of these air craft. It appears that Ex___RSAF doesn’t read much or he would know that just this past weekend Israeli Defense Forces used US provided F-16’s to attack ground target in Gaza.

One thing for the Saudi’s to keep in mind the weapons they have stock piled can be used against them by their own people. Don’t believe see Libya and the take down of Colonel Gadhaffi. The rebels started pout with no weapons but in time captured all they needed for the rems stock pile of the Lybian Military to include Mig 21’s which the flew in sorties against Colonel Gadhaffi’s forces. The Saudi Royal Family is not a beloved monarchy and suffers from corruption and the denial of human rights that all the falling governments of the Middle East do.

The Middle East is awash with weapons and don’t need any more. As far as Iran it is amazing what the posters on this site don’t know.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

As Thinking_exUSAF said, these are hardly going to be used to put down street demonstrations and they will not be delivered for about 4 years. Byron just had his automatic “reply” function set to ON and has not yet thought about the idea at all.

The Chinese version of the MiG-21 is actually the J-7. The J-6 is the Chinese MiG-19 copy.

Forgot to add this: I do see your point. However, I don’t think the Saudi’s are likely to protest like the other Middle Eastern states. I admit I haven’t good sources on the Saudi people’s point of view, but from the few that I have they don’t seem that angry at the government or the US. This is mostly because Saudi Arabia is flush with US cash. These advanced aircraft are high end equipment that could be used horribly by anyone in the wrong hands, but I doubt the SA government will need to use them to put down citizens when most of them are happy with the support we’ve given them.

It’s quite amazing to see Byron put up the comparison. One recalls how he also commented on the DefTech board that the South China Sea was not in China’s interest and that the US has nothing to worry about…

We all know a lot about Iran. This arms sale deal is not just to show Iran who’s boss in the region, but also a plus for US workforce.

We should be replacing our F-15C fleet with F-15SA’s (especially the aircraft with a NORAD commitment), and move to the head of the production line’s priorities!

The objective of maintaining a military, or upgrading that military, is not just to be able to fight a war, but to deter that war in the first place. Furthermore, if the war does come down to a hot fighting war, the objective is to win with devastatingly overpowering force, not just to offer a “fair and equitable fight”. That little bit of strategic wisdom was coined at least 2500 years ago by Tsun Tsu, and was probably well known to anyone schooled in the military arts long before his putting it to paper.

The Saudi AF could almost certainly “win” a fight against the Iranian air force, even as things stand today. Four years in the future, when they have all of their newly purchased F-15s, one would hope that they could do the same, but… those four years represent time for the Iranians to shore up their capabilities and as we all know, they have the funding and the will to do so.

With the Blackhorse boys, ALLONS has a definite meaning and implicit direction, i.e. “ahead”. What direction to you propose, Byron, and please remember the meaning and end effect of Brownian motion? :-)

The Iranians are just pulling our chain, they don’t like being ignored. Their neighbors can handily deal with any potential economic upset. This bolstering of the Boeing workforce is the look ahead indicated by “Thinking_ExUSAF”. The developing missles in the Iranian inventory are more of a concern than any challenge to the Straits. The Straits are only a brief economic challenge, where as the missles will lead to dead and wounded citizens begging for retaliation. These “Strike Eagle” types (I believe) will be able to defeat the missles and launch sites when the Iranians start to rattle that sword. Happy New Year

Notice that the deal includes munitions, spare parts, training, maintenance and logistics. Without this, these aircraft, (and most modern aircraft), are useless. If the Saudi aircraft were to ever threaten the US or Israelis the support could be pulled and these A/C would quickly become useless just like the US made A/C the Iranians have. Flyable and combat capable are two different things. One of the benefits of selling our allies any US made and supported A/C is there a certain measure of control over them after the fact. It also delays or prevents these allies from producing their own, indigenous A/C. Having worked in Avionics in the Marine Corps in the 80’s and still working on vintage warbirds now, I can tell you that without spares and maintenance, any modern aircraft may last only a few days before it becomes useless in combat. I’m glad Boeing made this deal. Keeping the F-15SA line going could also be a good thing when the US looks to upgrade it’s own F-15s or purchase new ones to augment the limited number of F-22s.

The Kingdom is definately worried about the Iranians. Win/Win with us.

No, because this sale will be done in 2014, and the closing of the Straight is supposed to happen in a few days or weeks…

This is what I have a problem with… Why don’t we have this upgraded equipment on our planes?

“The fighters will come equipped with all the latest refinements, including Active, Electronically-Scanned Array radars — nicer than many of the U.S. Air Force Eagles’s — and a full whack of other weapons and sensors.

These include a new “Advanced Electronic Warfare System;” new reconnaissance pods; HARMs; JDAMs; Harpoons; AIM-9X Sidewinders; and AIM-120 AMRAAMs, according to DoD. The deal also includes training for Saudi pilots and airmen alongside the U.S. Air Force, said James Miller, the principal deputy undersecretary of defense for policy.”

Because we don’t have the money to pay for it, and we’re busy trying to get the F35 off the ground. I’m all for upgrading, but we can’t do everything at once.….

I wouldn’t doubt the Iranians will want to buy the best Russian fighters including the MiG-31, MiG-29M (or MiG-35), Su-35S, and the PAK FA (if they could get their hands on them).

I don’t see why not. Especially since we capped the F-22A fleet at 187.

A coup would have been if Saudi Arabia bought anything else instead (note that Saudi Artbia has not been cleared for the F-35 so it is not even an option for them at this point). The is deal has been ‘in the works’ for 26 months.
http://​www​.dsca​.mil/​p​r​e​s​s​r​e​l​e​a​s​e​s​/​3​6​-​b​/​2​0​1​0​/​S​a​udi…

No we should not. We SHOULD be replacing them with F-22s.

correction…14 months.

30 Billion to buy another 20 years of pliant American government and ensure when the next time Saudis leave thousands of dead Americans in the streets the ambassador can make it safely out of the country.

Sounds like a bargain.

Actually, we buy most of our foreign oil in he western hemisphere, not Saudi Arabia. The euros? That’s a different story.…

d

Only with a new President will that happen. Replacing them with F-22s is what I want to.

Oh. Well thank you for clearing that up.

These 84 are F-15SA (appearantly single seat F-15SG) & the prior 72 are F-15S (downgraded single seat F-15E) NOT F-15SE.

Just what will these F-15SA have that you think we don’t/won’t have on our own F-15Cs &/or F-15Es?

Our F-15Cs are being upgraded with the same AN/APG-63(v)3 AESA radar as these F-15SA & our F-15Es our being upgraded with even MORE advanced AN/APG-82.

About the only thing these F-15SA will have that we won’t have is HARM (we have other dedicated Wild Weasel assets for them) & Harpoons (we don’t use our F-15s for anti-ship operations) but both of them could be cleared for USAF F-15Es easily enough if required.

Over 100 Blackhawks and 70 plus apache gunships

That is a crucial distinction. The F-15SA is an excellent aircraft that would make Iran question its ability to do anything is any sort of airwar with Saudi Arabia. The F-15SE would enable SA to strike Israel before Israel had time to scramble any sort of defense. The Silent Eagle isn’t F-35 levels of stealth, but it would allow the Saudi’s to penetrate much closer to Israel before the Israeli air defense system picked them up.

Byron, although you bring up good points for conversation, in the end its all about sales. With LM cornering the F22 and F35, the Boeing Fighter business is all but gone.….so to speak. This sale will keep many people employed in the US and it increases pressure on “other” middle east countries to buy more military aircraft. Like I mentioned earlier, UAE will be next for the F15. We sold 1000’s of F16’s abroad and now it’s time to increase the sales for the F15 to countries where most of us think it does not make much sense.

Exactly. The Saudis are worried about their Sunni buddies in the area more than anything. They figure they may have to invade Iraq if it gets taken over by Iranian interests that are against the Sunni minority. They know they will probably not be able to rely on the US to constantly police their neighbors. This will not need goading by the Monarchy, the Sunni on the street will be glad to fight for their clan. The whole of the Middle East problems are clannish ones, based on thousands of years of dusty old history. They never forget a disrespect; the only problem is, they probably never remember the good things their Arab brothers have done for them either.

Do you feel this opens a possibly of the US upgrading their own 15 fleet as they will be able to enjoy lower per unit costs, just because any 15 variant assembly line is now open?

“As far as Iran it is amazing what the posters on this site don’t know.” Actually, what amazes me is your claim that you do.

I was in KSA most of 2009 at the KKAF in and Near Ahba and Kahmis near the Red Sea South of Jeddah, enjoyed the 9 month assignment in the Thermal Spray Department rebulding Nozzle Segments of the After Burner from Pratt Whitney F-100, F220 engines. Then Saudi AF bought 84 GE F110 Engines to replace all the Pratt Whitney Fighter Engines . Had to come back to the USA could not stick around to see how things worked out. The GE engine is use in the F18’s aready but its a little heavier and develops a little more thrust than the PW. Arabs are tough costumers when it comes to playing one company aginst another

· 2 minutes ago

I was in KSA most of 2009 at the KKAF in and Near Ahba and Kahmis near the Red Sea South of Jeddah, enjoyed the 9 month assignment in the Thermal Spray Department rebulding Nozzle Segments of the After Burner from Pratt Whitney F-100, F220 engines. Then Saudi AF bought 84 GE F110 Engines to replace all the Pratt Whitney Fighter Engines . Had to come back to the USA could not stick around to see how things worked out. The GE engine is use in the F18’s aready but its a little heavier and develops a little more thrust than the PW. Arabs are tough costumers when it comes to playing one company aginst another

Read more: http://​www​.dodbuzz​.com/​2​0​1​1​/​1​2​/​2​9​/​u​-​s​-​s​a​u​d​i​s​-​i​nk-…
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