Senators want answers on end of F-35B’s ‘probation’

Senators want answers on end of F-35B’s ‘probation’

The top men on the Senate Armed Services Committee, Michigan Democrat Sen. Carl Levin and Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain, both have been around Washington for a very long time. They know how the game is played.

If, for example, a secretary of defense says he’s going to put a troubled major acquisition program on “probation,” meaning that he’d support canceling it if it doesn’t improve — even though that status has no real meaning and the decision would be taken after he’d left office — you don’t just give a worldly shrug. You don’t say, ‘Hey, I get it, this is a made-up thing to placate mainstream reporters and borderline Washington audiences to make it sound like we’re getting tough on this program.’

No — you buy in to the imaginary premise and double down on its own internal logic. You dont say, Eh, it’s a TV show, it’s just for fun. You say: Hey, the Starship Enterprise can’t use its transporter beam at warp speed, and yet in this episode, it does! Explain the discrepancy!


Levin and McCain wrote a letter to Secretary Panetta on Monday asking just what the B did to justify his lifting “probation” during his trip last month down to Naval Air Station Pax River, Md. They repeated to him that they thought Secretary Gates, who first declared that you couldn’t use the transporter at warp speed, had set down “specific courses of action” for Lockheed and the program. And yet they’ve seen nothing that explains why the B got a clean bill of health.

Wrote Levin and McCain:

For months, this Committee has insisted — most recently in the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012, under section 148, “Report on Probationary Period in Development of Short Take-Off, Vertical Landing Variant of the Joint Strike Fighter” — that the Department define specific criteria that would determine how the F-35B would exit probation. It is unclear to us that the Department has done so.

Nonetheless, the Department’s “F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Concurrency Quick Look,“released on November 29, 2011, called for “serious reconsideration of procurement and production planning”. And, just days ago, Department’s chief operational tester reported that the JSF Operational Test Team (consisting of the Services’ operational test agencies) assessed the F-35 program as not on being track to meet operational effectiveness or operational suitability requirements.

We appreciate that the development of F-35B has enjoyed some success over the last few months, after several years of having fallen short. We similarly understand that engineering solutions to known problems with the F-35B’s structure and propulsion have been identified. However, in the intervening time since probation was imposed, more problems with the F-35B’s structure and propulsion, potentially as serious those that were originally identified year ago, have been found. This is salient where the F-35B has completed only 20% of its developmental test plan to date. Your decision, therefore, appears at least premature.

The Department’s hastily-prepared report on the F-35B, intended to fulfill the statutory requirement of section 148, was provided to the Committee only after you announced your decision. It purports to justify your decision by explaining that based on “holistic view” of this weapon system “sufficient progress in F-35B development, test and production [has been made] such that no uniquely distinguishing issues require more scrutiny than the other variants of the F-35″. Notably, this standard was never originally defined or articulated as the exit criteria determining the F-35B’s removal from probation. It is, rather, now being offered as an after-the fact rationalization of decision already made.

Translation: Wait, how can it be that the man John Connor sends back in time to protect his mother, so she can give birth to him and he can grow up to lead the human resistance, could wind up becoming his own father? “Probation” has a lot of the same problems as “The Terminator,” and it was just as real. But the Pentagon pitched this script, and Levin and McCain have used its own story problems to show they understand what’s going on here — at every level.

 

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Only now do people start asking the direct questions towards the F-35B…

Probation is just pentagon jargon for a free pass.

The senators shouldn’t be wasting their time talking to the pentagon, they should be asking the head of the FBI why he isn’t serving out indictments for fraud and conspiracy to fraud.

I think only now are people asking questions about the F35 period and there is a glimmer of reality intruding on the DoD when they decided to slow production.

I’m with Senator McCain on this jumping ahead with the troubled B model is mostly Politics NOT safe for pilots and other Marines. Never push the F-35 ahead of its service testing this would put lives at risk. If a delay happens work on fixing it don’t threat about jobs. Get it right before our pilots jump into the cockpit.

Thank God for a free press that is increasingly empowered by the internet to shed light on our acquisition disasters. DoD wastes too much time and money and misses out on too many opportuntities to rapidly field valuable emerging technologies as it continues to plod along with too risky development programs that take too long, cost too much, and do not deliver on performance. Someone needs to take a wrecking ball to the whole rotten leadership culture and implement acquisition strategies based on logic, operational needs, competetition, affordability, and respect for the limits of technology.

Levin & McCain prove once again that they probably could not even dress themselves.

Why the F-35 was placed on probation:
FY2010
130 flights (missed target)
1467 test points (missed target)
10 vertical landings (missed target)

Why the F-35 was taken off probation:
FY2011
333 flights (exceeded target)
2636 test points (exceeded target)
268 vertical landings (exceeded target)

You’re right, you know… for once. The calculation probably was exactly that simplistic for SecDef Panetta. Now, how about those 14 unanswered questions at the end of their letter pertaining to the health of the program?

( Phil Ewing– Could we get a link to the full text of that letter, please? )

http://​s3​.documentcloud​.org/​d​o​c​u​m​e​n​t​s​/​2​7​4​2​1​7​/​d​od-…

The QLR from the DoD. Not terribly flattering or positive.

Its good to see that the F-35 program has done so many more tests than in 2010. Because back then the excuse was well we cant tell if it’s a turkey or not — we just haven’t tested it yet.

2636 test points later now we know the birds a turkey that cannot meet operational effectiveness or operational suitability requirements even when threatened with program cancellation.

the F-35 is a money pit that will never be competitive. We are wasting time and money just so that Lockheed can reap windfall profits. Time to scrap the turkey and start again.

Thanks, but I’ve got the QLR and the OT&E report on my hard drive. My sarcasm didn’t translate, I guess…

I was asking if pfcem can explain away the 14 questions at the end of the Levin/ McCain letter as easily as he cited those irrelevant stats.

A combat ready JSF is vaporware. Never gonna happen. Especially the B.

Personally I’m surprised that pfcem didn’t list the number of donuts consumed at management meetings as a KPI

The F-35 is a problem child because it is multiservice, one plane does all. The issues exposed in testing are now unique to the different configurations. There is always problems with new hardware and new designs, this one is magnified by a thousand. The question becomes, if congress cancels the F-35, then there is no replacement for the aging fleet of legacy fighters and the cost of new development will increase exponentially. It is cheaper in the long run to fix the F-35 and retain the investment by DOD. This is why SecDef has made a command decision, independent of congress. McCain doesn’t like the F-35 based upon what information, other than what he reads in this forum?

http://​s3​.documentcloud​.org/​d​o​c​u​m​e​n​t​s​/​2​7​4​2​1​7​/​d​od-…

Did you read this? I mean read it. It’s about 20 or so pages with some summaries and a bunch of charts, not too much really.

hey… does this also mean that the ” Power by the Hour” deal is gone too?
Supposedly, the uptime of these birds is guaranteed by the support vendor
and if a plan cant fly for any reason ( no parts, flaws, long maintenance times)
that the vendor gets whacked for substantial $$$.
Promising a product that will give you longer uptime was a catchy way to get
the order… now lets see if these contractors ever really meant to meet those
“marketing” promises.

Congress needs to decide on whether to cancel the F-35 program or buy as many as possible, then fix them later because there is no real viable alternative as the current fleet of aircraft in the US Air Force are old as the first F-16 was delivered in 1978.

What? This story reads as if it were written in a middle school political science class. Would it have been possible to include less relevant information in favor of more juvenile allusions to science fiction? That’s sarcasm by the way. This is a very serious issue that many of us would like to have intelligent conversation about. Save the Star Trek jargon and give us something to read. This is a trillion-dollar defense program we are talking about, not a silly television series.

Sounds like Lockheed did not give those friendly senators enough campaign donations this time!

The F-35B is happening, and it’s going to be a tremendous air asset for decades to come…you sour-puss blogmeisters can suck on that.…seriously, just suck it.

The F-35B will be canceled in about 12 months when the next 500 Billion gets cut. They should cancel the whole program and build more F-22’s and Silent Eagles for the Air Force & F-18’s for the Navy, but after the next 500 Billion dollar cut we’ll be lucky if we can just get our current fleets upgraded with the latest IRST & AESA equipment.

F-35B is going to be a pretty airshow star and great USMC recruiting tool and cost lots of money to do a job that could be accomplished for far less, but hey we are a rich country so why not blow it on a Ferrari with wings.

I think Levin an McCain should retire an go to China

eventually CHINA is getting all the benefit from F35B developments. either by stealing or buying on 1 cent on a dollar.

Unmanned drones are the future. Priced at a fraction of the cost..stealthy..pilotless..and..universal weapons platform across all services…the j-35 is already antiquaited

History shows that a troubled program soon is on the chopping block. Then President Carter, did a most couragous thing when he ‘whacked’ the B-1. Seems that he did it to his own preil, as he wasn’t re-elected. The 12 month target seems real, after Prez “O” gets his next 4, and it WILL happen, expect to see the F-35 go bye-bye. Then the next Repub can save the day.

Only now have you heard about the questions.

Your joking right? If he made his decision based on this forum, then they would have cancelled and upgraded the F-18 with International Roadmap upgrades and other stupid crap people spew who have zero idea what they are talking about.

Northrop Grumman Global Hawk—–$235M per copy. Where is the fraction? The un-informed, oh the un-informed.

This would have sounded better if it had been a bit more realistic, I think the author has watch too many movies. I would love to hear what the SECDEF response was. He probably told the good seantors that, #1: he’s tired of spending tax payers dollars on a project that don’t work. or he could have told them that he is thinking about canceling the whole daggon thing. Whatever he come up with, it’s his call, thats what SECDEF’s do, not the Senate arms committee, or mabe he told them that the bird is ready to move on the next phase.….which might be the scrap yard.…..who knows for sure? But seeing as how McCain pushed this project from it’s inception, I can understand his interest in it.

Given America’s debt situation the entire F-35 program MUST be cancelled. IF what you state is true, the program should be cancelled by CONGRESS, to convey to consultants, politicians and other officials who have allowed such scenarios to exist, all who “at times” have been known to pad their own pockets, that you DON’T support programs that “miss the target” one year and then, under threat of project cancellation, FIX the identified problems in less than a year. The probelms should NOT have existed in the first place. AMERICA needs to have honest, morally strong elected, appointed and hired officials that are going to “ATTACK” America’s DEBT PROBELMS!!!!!!

The F-35 has become a “COST PROHIBITIVE” program, IF it wasn’t at it’s inception. The thought of “fixing” this “ill-conceived” & “questionably-developed” program is another example of America’s “deep pockets programs” that has been one of a long list of defense and other governmental programs that have been grossly mismanaged and have dragged AMERICA to the “precipice of financial collapse’. The “continued tionalization for this program & many other governmental give-aways, by morally questionable individuals, e.g. consultants, politicians, military leaders, hired and appointed personnel, should be ‘TERMINATED IMMEDIATELY”. The entire process of these programs needs to be entirely re-evaluated. WAKE-UP AMERICA–Greece today, America tomorrow!!!

Your obvious inability to use appropriate English language is akin to the lack of intelligence by you and those who support an “ill-designed”,“prohibitively expense” and hopefully soon to be “terminated” aircraft program that is one of many “ill-conceived governmental/DOD programs” that is pushing AMERICA to it’s financial precipice.

IMHO, John McCain has always been a paid Lockheed schill and don’t even get me started with the socialist Levin, who has likely jeopardized national defense countless times.

Donut consumption rate per meeting is a KSA, not a KPI. Coffee consumption rate per meeting is a KPI. Please leave the aircraft performance assessments to us professionals.

I totally agree with you Dick. It is indeed time to look closely at the graft that has been going on for years, we simply cannot afford to allow it to continue. If the 35 problems can’t be fixed within a reasonable time, and cost, junk it.! The other problem lies with the lackadaisical a—–s out here who voted in this administration. The Republic can survive a fool like obama, it is least likely to survive a multitude of fools who elected him president. WE need to do an audit on everything starting with the Federal Reserve. Maybe it would turn up that we don’t really owe the reserve and it’s system of banks 6.383 Trillion dollars.!!

How many 35’s would we need to give China to clear a 1.368 Trillion dollar debt? Or give Japan for the 1.038 Trillion we owe them.? or to the UK for 434.2Billion, which just a year ago was 55.0Billion.? If I were to look closely at what the POTUS has done since being installed by fools, I would probably fall in with those who believe the ” Conspiracy Theory “. If he keeps doing what he’s doing we are at serious risk of losing our sovereignty. We collapes economically (bankrupt), the rest of the world goes with us, out of the ashes rises a World economic system ( eg Euro), followed soon by a World government. You can’t all use the same money without following the same rules (LAWS ).
The new world order is just around the corner.

Why did we buy all the Brits’ Jump Jets and spares Tony? Did someone think we’d be better off with legacy aircraft that are doing the job for 1/16th of the price of a 35?

I’m with you Mike these libs and there need to take defense dollars and pump them into welfar fraud programs where they probably have a vested interest makes one want to vomit! Where do these “miitary experts” come from? Most of these naysayers sit around in their Mothers pajamas sucking down smooties in the basement. Ask any of these knuckleheads how many IFE’s have been declared in almost 500 flights!?! First they have no idea what an IFE is and second if they know so much about the test program post it here! It’s pretty damn good for a 5th Gen electric jet with several million lines of code…

After “O” gets reelected our country goes bye bye, you must be one of the multitude of fools who elected him in the beginning. wouldn’t count the eggs yet, every one with any common sense at all can see he is taking us down. The Constitution is next on his list of things to change. Wake up.…fool.

Lockheed refuses to release estimates of the cost of maintenance because they know it would kill the program dead instantly.

What abuse of Tax Payer monies paying for this program and Congressional salaries ! The only thing the F-35 will do well are sport stadium flyovers, and static displays at airshows. It will be too expensive to fly and maintain. It’s like putting a tow hitch on Buggatti with a trailer having a dozen morons provide oversight.

You’ve been reading too much science fiction. DRONES cannot conduct air-to-air combat in anything like a dogfight environment. And now we’ll wait for someone to tell us “the days of the dogfight are over.” This will be just as legitimate as the claims that “missiles have made guns on airplanes obsolete” back in the late 1950s. AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN!

The level of technology that would be necessary to enable a drone to “see” a threat coming up on it and take evasive action, and conversely, to ‘yank and bank’ with a jinking target are a long long way off my friends. None of us will see it in our lifetimes. Machines simply can’t replace people yet.

I really don’t know what to believe regarding the F35B. However, I DO know that there were those who insisted the V-22 OSPREY would never work, was a waste of money, etc., etc., etc. Now they’re operational. I just observed four of them flying close overhead a couple weeks ago. I didn’t even hear them coming over the base. I just happened to look up while driving and saw them flying right over me. I had to open my car window to even hear the faintest sound out of them!

Now, they were flying in airplane mode with the tilt rotors pointing forward, rather than in helo-hover mode, which would make them much louder. But still. It was amazing how quiet they were. This supports what I’d read about them. Very quiet so they can be used for special ops. No helicopter devised has ever been that quiet. Glad we didn’t nix that program like some wanted.

That said, I wish the picture were more clear on this F35 program. It DOES at times appear to be a real jack of all trades and master of nothing.

I hope you have to fly it jackass

Obama will wither sell it or allow them to “Steal” it. Bank on that. Anything to weaken the US is his goal. Just my opinion and I hope I am wrong, but he is taking us down a path we might not recover from.

Cant save the day if the country as we know it doesnt exist anymore.

The V-22 is still not quite out of the woods yet, yes it’s in service but that don’t mean that is ready for prime time. The question is, how many troops have die in this thing, or the F-35 before they realize that it’s not 100% safe? There is a stopping point somewhere.

Nothing is 100% safe. How many troops have died in any type/model of rotory winged aircraft in the inventory in the last decade or so? That’s just the nature of the beast. The V-22s flying today are by far much safer, and the crews more proficient than the ones that crashed over 10 yrs ago. And if mulitple tours flying missions in Iraq and picking up downed aircrew in the Libyan desert isn’t prime time then I don’t know what is. Maybe you could explain…

For 40 years, the liberal wing of congress has demanded that we build one jet for all the services. At least one of the variants might be a decent machine, we are learning that the others probably will not be. Here is suggestion to the democrats in the congress and senate. Stick to things that you know something about.…you know.…..gays, names for post offices, and welfare. Leave the defense of this country to the conservatives.

The JSF especially the VSTOL needs to happen. For those who think we don’t need a new manned fighter or that its too expensive, must answer this question. Which is more expensive? A great plane? or war?

The most expensive war in real terms was WWII. Guess who had the best planes at the onset while the rest of the world debated their military expendatures? Answer Germany and Japan. Cost to the American Economy 4.2 Trillion. Cost to the Brits times two. Thats not even including cost to the USSR and to the losing countries.

To those of you “in the know”. Research obviously escapes you. Global Hawk is $104m out the door. With cost over runs and delays the unit cost of the F35 is now $135m. The F35 weapons program is the most expensive undertaken by the DOD! Program cost budgeted at approximately $285b is now more than $330b. The program is expected to exceed $1t by 2050.

The $235m per copy you speak of is the cost saving of replacing one u-2 aircraft with one global hawk..ahem..I think NASA has 2

Now for TOM!! Ever heard of Air Defence Artillery? The Global Hawk provides coodinated real time info to high altitude,and mid altitude air defense systems.. look up HIMAD and you’ll under stand…and JSTARS and you’ll understand..and AWACS and you’ll understand…and STINGER and you“ll understand and HELLfire and you“ll undstand..you“ll understand..and EADS and you“ll understand.…get it?

As a Arizona resident I can enthusiastically concur with promoting the retirement of John McCain. He is the poster boy for all that is wrong with out government. Failure as a Naval Aviator, Failure as a Warrior, failure in business and extremely successful for way too many years in Washington DC. He needs to retire and move to a different state.

In Afghanistan V-22 are flown with great fanfare to just outside the combat areas, then assaults are made by 40 year old CH-46s or 25 year old Army Ch-47s or 2 1/2 ton and 5 ton trucks. V-22s cost too much and the USMC will not risk a Osprey Black eye. The rescue of the F-15E crew in Libya was a big exception.

Squeeky, my friend, you didnt read your AvLeak very closely this week, did you! The USAF, long a proponent of the Global Hawk as the end all of everything just in the last few days cancelled their procurement and apparently is planning to park the rest. Seems that when the “analytical” cost numbers were replaced with actual cost numbers, the venerable U-2 wins! (There were obviuosly other reasons for parking the GH’s, such as the payload functionality and the system responsiveness, but.… if you stick strictly to the cost/flight hour as the USAF was forced to do.… .… . .)

Here we go again! Don’t you read the AF Times? The U2 is to be replaced by Global hawk by 2015. The article was published July 10, 2011.

Thinking_ExUSAF.…True enough for Block 30 but…USAF has already placed orders for Block 40.

By the way I can’t pass up the opportunity to thank those who have and/or will school me on this subject. Much appreciated!

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