Resetting the Pacific game board

Resetting the Pacific game board

If only top congressional lawmakers would telegraph news stories more often! Just as Sens. Carl Levin, John McCain and Jim Webb warned this week, the U.S. and Japan announced a new basing agreement late Thursday that would move some some 9,000 Marines out of Japan.

Those troops will stay in the Pacific, likely in Guam and Hawaii, leaving a smaller force of about 10,000 Marines on Okinawa. The forces that remain there will be important, including the headquarters elements of III Marine Expeditionary Force; the 1st Marine Aircraft Wing; the 3rd Marine Logistics Group and the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit.

The deal puts about 5,000 Marines on Guam, which also will host the 3rd Marine Expeditionary Brigade HQ; the 4th Marine Regiment and some of III MEF’s squadrons, ground and support units, according to the official announcement. The rest of the troops coming out of Okinawa will go back to the U.S. or be part of the rotational Marine Air-Ground Task Force that trains down in Darwin, Australia.


Japan will pay about $3.1 billion of the overall $8.6 billion cost for the new laydown, Pentagon officials say, but it isn’t fully settled yet: Okinawans still want the Marines’ air base on the island gone, but that wasn’t part of the agreement announced this week.

The other shoes still yet to drop could come from Levin, McCain, Webb and their Hill colleagues, who are due some analysis about Pacific force posture and, as we saw this week, jumped ahead of the Defense and State Departments’ announcement to remind Secretary Panetta of that. Levin, the Michigan Democrat who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee; McCain, the Arizonan who is its top Republican; and Webb, a Virginia Democrat, issued their own cautious statement Thursday after DoD’s rollout:

We appreciate the willingness of the Departments of State and Defense to accommodate some of our concerns by adjusting the language in certain portions of the U.S.-Japan Joint Statement of the Security Consultative Committee. We still have many questions about the specific details of this statement and its implications for our force posture in the Asia-Pacific region, and we will continue to work with the administration and the Government of Japan to achieve the objectives we all share: a mutually beneficial, militarily effective, and fiscally sustainable agreement regarding the realignment of U.S. forces on Okinawa and Guam. We will also continue to await the findings and recommendations of the independent assessment on U.S. force posture in the Asia-Pacific region, as required by the Fiscal Year 2012 National Defense Authorization Act.

So — what does that mean? Thursday’s announcement is the product of years of diplomatic work between the U.S. and Japan and was rolled out in advance of a visit by Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda … this doesn’t sound like a situation in which the Obama administration wanted to test the waters and then change its approach depending on the response. It may be that the report Levin, et al. expect by the end of June miraculously endorses a construct very much like this one.

There is a litte wiggle room in this week’s agreement, however. The State and Defense Department statement said the Marines’ move off Okinawa “is to occur when appropriate facilities are available to receive them,” — a pretty elastic standard. It continues, politely: “Recognizing the strong desires of Okinawa residents, these relocations are to be completed as soon as possible” — then more elasticity — “while ensuring operational capability throughout the process.”

That means no date certain for the transition and perhaps a little space for lawmakers to have their say about how all this should break down.

Join the Conversation

Sounds alright with me.

At a time when the PRC is laying hegemonic claim to most of the South China Sea as economic exclusion zone, while PLA(N) is making a big transition to blue water capability toward projecting force beyond the first island chain, I think the US is sending the wrong signal, displaying weakness by shifting forward deployed US forces further from mainland China, from the first island chain to the second island chain.

I am not saying the US is in any way weak. To the contrary, the US remains the world’s only superpower. But this retreating move sends a message of weakness at a time when we should be quietly displaying strength.

Overall isn’t bad US still holds bases on Okinawa and has the right to send reinforcements if things with NK and China or there trouble makers IE Vietnam heated up. More over we need bases in the Philippines more than Japan.

Sorry JRT, but the US is indeed weakening since a few years, didn’t you noticed ? This is a wise move in phase with to the declining of US strength.
The alternative is to still display strength when you no longer can afford it, but with severe consequences.

Japan still wants the Marines gone from Okinawa . Then again, unless of course North Korea or China start saber rattling on their front door and they come crying to us.

Yeah…but we just established a footprint in N. Australia, which is a better locale anyway if we want to influence Chinese calculus in the SCS. Plus…I don’t think they are really worried about the MEF in Japan. They are more concerned with Navy & AF forward presence in their front yard.

Enlighten us, because the regional governments are lining up with the US in various security and exercise arrangements, in addition to new basing options. The Arab governments are lining up with the US in opposition to Iran, Syria, and Libya. The WTO just ruled against China a couple three months ago in regards to rare earth’s. Explain how US influence is lessening because while we have some current financial issues if anything a number of regional power blocks are aligning themselves with the US in ways hereto unseen.

I think it’s a good strategy in respect to the rising tension between North Korea, China Russia, against Taiwan,South Korea, Japan and the Philippines. If war erupt between these countries, it’s most likely we (USA) will be involve too.

But make peace, diplomacy and a strong military be our (US) foremost priority to safeguard our security and that of others.

The whole South America is uniting around Venezuela and they want Cuba back with them.
Russia and China successively thwarted the US attempt to take over Syria. No secret they will military support Iran if needed.
US fled from Iraq and now its government is supporting Syria and is making ties with Iran.
Pakistan is angry at the US, especially the people. The passage to Afghanistan is still closed, so US is paying A LOT of money to Russia to pass through its territory.
India, Japan, and others do not want to stop buying Iranian oil.
In Afghanistan, US allied are pulling out their troops. Winning is now almost officially impossible.

“some financial issues” is a fucking big euphemism, US is broke, living on food stamps while the infrastructures are falling apart.

Chinese and Russian military spending on the rise, US downsizing all they can.

Do you need more ? Just connect the dots.

Nice name…

So the marines are being kicked out of Japan. We fought tooth and nail for 30 years to keep them there — is there any greater sign of American weakness in the Pacific ?

Of course it’s hardly news to those of us who travel in Asia. The phillippines announced military exercises with China the Thais have been buying Chinese equipment and developing missiles. The whole of SE Asia is overrun with Chinese money and tourists.

Everyone is realigning themselves which China in the whole region. As a singaporian columnist wrote a month ago — the future is bright we have to manage Americas decline by pretending that it isnt happening, so that they dont mess things up for SE Asia. Keeping Americans clueless is working pretty well I’d say.

Please post some proof about South America “uniting” with Venezuala because the last I saw Brazil was in discussions for greater defense and security cooperation with the US, Colombia as well, and ol Hugo’s chemo is not going well.

Please provide proof that Russia and China will side with Syria militarily because the last I seem to recall they are the ones that finally relented and allowed UN monitors in, to say nothing of the 130 plus countries that sided with the US in the general assembly vote condemning Assad.

Please provide proof of Iraq’s support of Syria because the voted against them in both the Arab League and the UN.

Japan reduced its buy of Iranian oil and India was exempted by the US for economic reasons for the Indians. The simple fact that Japan reduced its buy and India even spoke with the US is hardly an indication of waning US influence, quite the contrary really.

The US just penned a long term security deal with Afghanistan that will extend US presence beyond the 2014 pull out date for the international effort. I’m not really sure what ‘winning’ looks like in a war anymore but it seems to me a host nation inviting the US to stay can hardly be called defeat.

Relations are strained with Pakistan to be sure but Pakistan has a lot of internal problems that don’t have anything to do wit the US. I would bet things will sort out.

The US has a lot of debt. The US also had positive growth last year. The financial issues are more about policy than an inability to pay. We’ll see how things go in November but I think regardless the free spending days are over.

US military spending is still rising. The ‘cuts’ if you want to call them that were cuts to increases not to how much. So instead of defense rising at 8 or 9% it will only rise at 3 or 4 %. Which is also at $600 billion annually so I fail to see how the US would be defenseless.

Yes, I do need more because your dots are not fact based, they strike me an anti American ranting.

You are confusing asperations with reality — we wish they were lining up with the US in various security and exercise arrangements but the reality is the opposite. US power in Asia is in rapid decline and China is everywhere filling the void.

Pretending that it isnt happening isnt a strategy.

By the end of the year we will have fewer troops further from the Chinese. This is what we call the Pacific pivot — but really is the great Pacific retreat. It is seconf only tot eh reteat from Iraq and Afghansitan. The empire from the middle east to latin America is rolling up.

Right now China is adversarial to Vietnam, Japan, South Korea, the Phil. And just about everyone else.

India is finaly realizing that China will never consider them a equal…

Oh yea butterflys and ponies for china alright.

Japan doesnt want us out of Okinawa. Okinawans that are pretty much propagandized from birth want us out. Japan as in the mainland has one of the highest views of us in the world. Not to mention the Okinawans or atleast their leaders realise that if the base completely leaves untold billions will leave that economy.

Japan is also likely to buy a new aircraft soon maybe F-35, the F-18, or maybe even F-15 SE.

The Philippines buys chinese equipment because its cheaper than what they can get here in the US or elsewhere. They Just got the a Hamilton class Ex coast guard cutter in their navy with more on the way. They May even go for some fighters.

Vietnam is getting increasingly hostile to the Chinese over the oil fields in the philippine sea along with everyone else as China claims basicly everything.

The People of Burma (myanmar) are even getting annoyed as China has been using them and they are waking up.

China has a choice become a equal in the world and try to live like everyone else or become what it has so many times in the past. A regional Bully.

I’ll not reply to everything, but for instance sending UN monitors in Syria is a Russian victory, dude… US wanted to bomb.

I understand your point of view, I assume you are only reading American News, right ?

You should read RussiaToday and PressTV, they are lying, too, but reading the lies of everybody and not only the American’s ones is useful to get it.

I am not anti-american, god bless America, but I am pessimist… And probably better informed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-57422726–5
http://​globalnation​.inquirer​.net/​3​4​5​3​7​/​u​s​-​v​i​e​t​nam
http://​news​.yahoo​.com/​u​s​-​s​e​n​d​-​c​o​m​b​a​t​-​s​h​i​p​s​-​s​i​n​gap
http://​blogs​.voanews​.com/​b​r​e​a​k​i​n​g​-​n​e​w​s​/​2​0​1​2​/​0​3​/19
http://​www​.navy​.mil/​s​e​a​r​c​h​/​d​i​s​p​l​a​y​.​a​s​p​?​s​t​o​r​y​_​i​d=6
http://​www​.usarpac​.army​.mil/​e​x​e​r​c​i​s​e​s​.​asp
http://​en​.wikipedia​.org/​w​i​k​i​/​E​x​e​r​c​i​s​e​_​T​a​l​i​s​m​a​n​_Sa

You’re so full of crap.

Show me precisely a piece of evidence that the US wanted to bomb because I never read anything remotely that implied that from the White House.

I gather you won’t reply to anything because you’re too lazy or just don’t have a response to a factual counter to your assertions.

You can add arrogant, condescending, and conceited to pessimist for character faults also.

Yes the hope is that somehow Asia will snap out of it and realise that a poor a weak America is a better bet than a rich powerfull China.

I havent met anyone in Asia who dosent think that the game is already over for America.

Right now China is adversarial to Vietnam, Japan, South Korea, the Phil. And just about everyone else.

Pretty funny really, the major trading partners of all of them awash with Chinese money and tourism. Yep they are pretty hostile.

Obamas proposed anti-chinese pact has meanwhile vanished without trace as nobody is stupid enough to want to sign up to it.

Its notable that troops deployiong from Afghanistan to Australia are now even further away from China.

?

Just curious why my comment was deleted by admin?

The news in UK/US probably didn’t cover much of what’s happening in Asia right now, but look at what’s happening right off Philippine’s coast right now.

Shouldn’t Okinawans think twice before demanding such a drastic removal of marines?

Do they want a Japanese version of Mischief Reef or Scarborough shoal?

So what? Up until 1940 the US was the main supplier of war materials to Japan, 5 years later we dropped atom bombs on them. Commercial activity between private industry on the international market is no sterling indicator of good relations between nations.

Europe bought Libyan oil and then bombed Gaddafi.

No it isn’t notable, because the area of China that Stan is close to has about zero geo political value. China will live and die by its coast and Darwin is hundreds of miles closer and vastly easier to deploy from. You’re just a trolling hack with no point other than being an antagonistic hack.

SE Asian countries are well aware of US history in creating big messes in Asia. Thats why they are implementing what amounts to military containment.

While the commies improve their maritime proficiencies, DC has asked the RUSKIES to come drill ON US SOIL at the end of May to “protect” our most important military assets in Utah and Colorado!!! ***!?

While the commies improve their maritime proficiencies, DC has asked the RUSKIES to come drill ON US SOIL at the end of May to “protect” our most important military assets in Utah and Colorado!!! ***!?

While the commies improve their maritime proficiencies, DC has asked the RUSKIES to come drill ON US SOIL at the end of May to “protect” our most important military assets in Utah and Colorado!!! ***!?

While the commies improve their maritime proficiencies, DC has asked the RUSKIES to come drill ON US SOIL at the end of May to “protect” our most important military assets in Utah and Colorado!!! ***!?

Here is an idea: Let’s downsize the military, then put a large number of the remaining personnel, aircraft, ships and subs into one or two bases. Let’s make sure one of those bases is an island subject to 360 degree sneak attack where those forces can be devistated. Then let’s convince ourselves that nobody would dare attack us, and that we would always enjoy enough strategic warning to disburse assets. Oh, and unlike Pearl Harbor days, let’s make sure we’ve offshored most of our ship building and heavy industry.

Sounds like a plan. Let’s make sure the CNO and CMC implement it.

Oh, wait…they already did, with SECDEF’s blessing. Sure glad they get paid the big bucks for strategic thinking. One might think they were repeating the mistakes of the past, otherwise. Retired Sailor…

Once we called Thailand a stunch US ally now thier foriegn minister says that “China is just like family to us”. A story that you here around the region.

problem

I don’t see as confinement or lessening force impact by moving forces away from Oki.

For years Marines have been consolidated on Okinawa & that was fine b/c it was a hub for distributed Marine Forces throughout the region & Oki was beyond the range any real threat of any Chinese opening Offensive.

That is not the case now:
1) Okinawa would be well in the range of future Chinese systems
2) Marines have new Lift capabilities like the Osprey & the JHSV that have considerably shrunk the Theater.

Place some in Alaska and the Philippines.

And don’t forget Florida.

I was in Oki in ’00-’02 when Marines 1st experimented w/High Speed Vessels (West PAC Express).

It transformed what was a 3day combined ship/plane movement of a BN-sized Combined-Arms Force to many Regional Hot Spots, like Korea (about 1000mi), into a single vessel (HSV) movement in about 24hrs & 75% cheaper.

When your time window of 72hrs doesn’t change your Launch range can: 3X faster=3X further.

With that said, consolidating in Oki to Distribute forces Regionally is now not as Efficient as Distributing Forces throughout the Region & then Consolidating Forces at the point of Crisis.

Huh? You haven’t answered a single one of my counter points. I’ll take that as a victory, troll.

“I havent met anyone in Asia who dosent think that the game is already over for America.”

Are we supposed to take this crap serious Oblat? Go away, do you really think anyone buys that you are some sophisticated international somebody jetting around Asia? You’re a troll that has gotten yourself banned how many times from this site? You keep coming back to a defense site that everyone thinks you are a troll like I am sure people who are actually as sophisticated as you portend to be would waste what is actually valid time doing. Go away Oblat and stay away.

Yes I do travel widely for business — Singapore, Thailand and Indonesia last month for instance.
But there is nothing stopping you reading the bangkok post or straits times or jakarta post online, no need to rely on the moosejaw gazzette or whatever.

Americans who refuse to embrace the future because they are scared are going to have those fears realised.

Another successful advance to the rear you say ?

I’m sure if they were all stationed in nevada you could think of a good reason why that expands our influence in Asia.

Sell India or Japan the Kitty Hawk and or Enterprise — both countries have a naval history. India started in WW2– when it was the Royal Indian Navy and of course Japan and the Imperial Navy. I think both of those countries are more than capabile of containing the PRC Navy. Logically one would think the next conflict in the area would start as a territorial dispute then expanding to a more protracted sea/latorial war. God help the LCS’s without air support. Read the “Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors” or “Twilight of the Fleet” to understand what happens to a naval force w/o air cover. Both India and Japan have experience operating carries and air craft at sea. What happened to SATO. Is it still functioning? Should not leave out the PI. As the PRC becomes more or a threat to their territorial waters they will either give in to China or ask for our assistance. My bet is the PI stands up for itself. And our ace in the hole is the Auzzies and New Zenlanders.

No one believes you Oblat, you are a bag of wind and nothing more.

Nope, what I said is what I said, Darwin is hundreds of miles closer to the south china sea, Chinese naval facilities and Taiwan. It is connected to the ocean which instantly makes it a better location and jumping off point for Marines. You’re snide conceited non sense proves nothing Oblat.

I remember my times in/on Okinawa with great fondness. I was with 2/9 3rd Mar Div. and worked out of the B.A..S.
most of the time, but all of us Corpsmen went out with opur platoons when they went out to maneuvers. We were in the northernmost training areas of the whole island and we got to do some of the most stimulating “peacetime“
training in the whole Marine Corps!!!
While there, we were told to learn as much as possiblee about the local area and the people, as there had been many Marines that had given their lives for this “chunk of rock” during WWII. We were NOT TO DISRESPECT THEIR SACRIFICE!!!! IN ANY WAY!!!!!!!! In other words, doNOT disrespect the people, their property, or their possessions!!! We are the true ambassadors of our country when we are off duty and what we do reflects upon our country and our culture more than we think!!!!!

http://​www​.defensenews​.com/​a​r​t​i​c​l​e​/​2​0​1​2​0​5​0​2​/​D​E​FRE

FYI, more proof of your maximum crap level.

We need to expect the unexpected. China’s navy admiral just ordered their navy to shoot at Philippines navy boat on Panatag Shole.

*required

NOTE: Comments are limited to 2500 characters and spaces.

By commenting on this topic you agree to the terms and conditions of our User Agreement

AdChoices | Become a fan on and follow us on
© 2013 Military Advantage
A Monster Company.