F-16 Viper’s sunset delay

F-16 Viper’s sunset delay

FARNBOROUGH, England — To celebrate the 4,500th F-16 Viper delivered in 2012  since it was introduced in 1974, Lockheed Martin showed a clip of the fourth generation fighter’s first flight. Wings shaking left to right and then left again, the Viper barely made it off the runway before the pilot pulled its nose up and banked left.

Watching the grainy footage made it hard not to compare it to the shaky state of the defense aviation industry, and how almost 40 years later the F-16 is one of the few sure things in the fighter community. Air Force engineers can’t figure out why the F-22 keeps suffocating its pilots. And try as they might to keep the F-35 program’s struggles under wraps here at the Farnborough International Airshow, the F-35 program is in trouble.

It makes one think it was no coincidence that Lockheed Martin officials chose to offer its F-16 brief here directly after the F-35 pilots stepped off the stage, having described how flying the fighter “feels like magic.”


The U.S. and the rest of the world’s air forces’ budgets are in trouble, save for a few like Saudi Arabia. Air force leaders have to pinch pennies to include operations and maintenance expenditures down to each aircraft’s flying hour. It’s during these comparisons that the F-16 makes sense for countries looking to afford as many planes as it can in its fleet.

U.S. Air Force Maj. Joe “Buzz” Walter presented a brief that has made its rounds through the Pentagon and Congress that shows how many more planes the Air Force could keep if it shifted some of its F-35 investment dollars toward upgrades to F-16s. Lockheed competitors have also apparently done the math as BAE Systems held a press conference here Wednesday announcing its offering for an F-16 avionics upgrade.

Floyd McConnell, vice president for BAE Systems’ Integrated Avionics Solutions, said he forsees a multi-billion dollar market to upgrade F-16s whether it’s in the U.S. or the international market. Twenty five countries fly the F-16 and McConnell says it’s about time Lockheed Martin had some competition when offering upgrades to these buyers.

The U.S. Air Force has already offered Lockheed Martin a single source contract for the Combat Avionics Programmed Extension Suite (CAPES) that will include the installation of an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) fire control radar to a still to be determined number of F-16s. The Air Force also green lighted a service life extension program for 300 F-16s to make up for delays with the F-35 program.

Bill McHenry, Lockheed Martin’s director of F-16 business development, was cagey when asked if his company is making preparations for an increased amount of F-16 upgrades. It’s an awkward question seeing how Lockheed Martin also builds the F-35, whose delays have caused an influx in F-16 requirements.

However, the need is real. South Korea has already signaled a need to upgrade 130 of it’s F-16s and other countries might not be far behind.

Walking around Farnborough this week made it clear by the lack of new aircraft purchase announcements that keeping what’s old new again is a priority. And those countries who plan to purchase upgrades expect discounts. That’s why it would come as no surprise if other aerospace companies line up behind BAE Systems to challenge Lockheed Martin to upgrade a fleet stalwart like the F-16 Fighting Falcon.

“It’s the systems not the aircraft that’s going to make the [F-16] relevant,” McConnell said.

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Looks like it’s not just the USN that’s losing faith in the F-35 program. The USAF is too.

It’s no surprise, as the ’35 fly-away cost per airframe continues to climb, and as the economy continues to fall, something, somewhere eventually has to give. Doesn’t help that DoD is making very poor choices the last several years, such as purchasing more LCS instead of looking for a practical frigate design, USAF retiring the C-27 and five A-10 squadrons, USN, USAF & USMC dangerously cutting corners on maintenance, squeezing whatever dollars they can towards increasingly expensive ’35 procurement. I see the next twenty years being a difficult time for our military at the operational level, hopefully we don’t head into a major conflict anytime soon.

It’s frustrating what’s happening. Many on this board comment every day about how horrible the major contractors are. I would submit that the entire DOD acquisition process is badly broken. Rather than improve processes and find ways to achieve affordability, bureaucrats add increasingly burdensome levels of zero value added ‘noise’ to the process. The result is that EVERY program takes herculean effort to achieve any results.

The first B-52, from concept to first article delivery, was measured in months, not years. The first aircraft delivered was deemed ‘not airworthy’ and was held back. The second unit flew. Something that basic would kill a program today. We built over 750 B-52’s. Plenty of airframes to work out issues, and end up with an amazing weapon. We built 100 B-1’s. How many B-2’s did we end up with? 22? And people are amazed that programs are so expensive, and managers are so risk averse? Not long ago, we had a dozen fighter/attack aircraft programs active at any one time. Today, it’s really jus the F-35 and some legacy airframes. We are on a dangerous, potentially catastropic trajectory with DOD acquisitions, where we pour more and more money in, and less and less hardware comes out the other end. Our Navy hasn’t been smaller since WWII. The Army is in desperate need of modernizing equipment that has been at war for over a decade. The Air Force continues to shrink. Someone please tell me how this story has a happy ending?

>We are on a dangerous, potentially catastropic trajectory with DOD acquisitions, where we pour more and more money in, and less and less hardware comes out the other end.…Someone please tell me how this story has a happy ending?

The whole objective is to deliver nothing and just collect the cash. Tell that story to a contractor and just watch the involuntary smile cross thier face.

Really? You believe that? If so, you missed my entire point. Maybe, just maybe, the major contractors are actually trying to deliver superior products to the warfighter, but the acquisition process has become so outlandish that it is nearly impossible. For every Chief Engineer, there are 6 Business Operations people mucking up the works. For each electrical or software designer, there are a dozen ‘mandatory reviewers’, whos approval MUST be obtained, but none of which are even qualified to perform the mandatory review. I’ve love to go back to the era where amazing designs went from the back of and envelope to reality in months, not years.

I think both the F-15 and F-16 will be around for some time to come both here in the US and abroad. Fact is the F-22 was shut down the F-35 has many troubles and budgets are low. Upgrades will be the main theme this decade. For good reason both planes are great fighters.

Just some food for thought… the noted 250–300 USAF F-16s being committed for some variation of life-extension were 1) already previously intended to receive an upgrade/life-extension to remain part of the force-structure well into the next-decade. and 2) will NOT make-up for the rapidly growing near– and medium-term Tacair fighter-gap and shortfall… as they will only be extended (crossing fingers) an additional 2k hours of operation life — and which at best can help fill a portion of the longer-term fighter-gap after say, the 2025 time-frame.

To partially address the more relevant and growing near– and medium-term capability and deterrence gaps though, the USAF would need to acquire new-build, operational F-16V type platforms, in lieu of some immature LRIP F-35s which are still undergoing development.

1) The F-16 was the last great product of the Fighter Mafia. It is doomed to be the dog in the manger for its entire service life. No one has come along since to replace that great group of Americans.
2) The F-16 isn’t the only plane in this “we only bring it out of the garage when we REALLY need to to perform the mission” category. F-18, A-8, A-10, B-52, C-130. Survivors by excellence and hated by the military.
3) “Trying to deliver superior products”? What a joke. Yes, the “ununiformed military” shares blame equally with the vendors. But it be GOLD they’re after. For one thing, excuses can cost the government as much as actual corrective work, even though they cost the vendors nada.
4) The Air Force is responsible for their own misery. They insisted on being in charge of all fixed-wing warbirds. Instead of being a steward for the orphans whose actual missions were in other services, they keep dumping them to move more money into the crap they picked out: “A loser, but our loser”. They could give the A-8s to the Marines and the C-27 to the Army. They could still use the F-15 for an interceptor instead of a bombtruck.
5) Lemme see, the F-35 as a superior warplane with superior craftsmanship. The buffet rate is so high that it throws the malfunctioning helmet further out of whack? The fuel dump dumps fuel into the IPP intake? It carries the same bomb load as the F-104? Its skin sluffs off? Its bulkheads need to be reinforced? Current cost has escalated to 200 million? Where’s Willy Messerschmitt when we need him?

No one is cutting corners on maintenance. Do not infer that it is being done without any evidence.

Hell, when I was a kid we were landing rockets on the Moon and you couldn’t keep up with all the new airplanes being developed in a year. Now our pilots fly airplanes that their dads thought were cutting edge when they were kids. Isn’t progress great? Of course, in those days if you came to the US Air Force and told them you had some wild hair up your ass to design an airplane and you were such hot ship that they should pay you for all your development costs plus give you a profit on top so your CEO could buy a super yacht to use to travel between his fifty million dollar homes they’d have told you to f yourself. Now that’s just business as usual.

The F-20 Tigershark sure looks good right now.Low tech,low maintenance and low cost!

Smell the coffee.….. when a democrat is in office the military is reduced, orders cancelled, programs questioned, strength diminished. Lets reduce the size so we can pay them better as professionals. Have you not heard these arguments before?. They need all that extra money to give away trying to sucor votes in the next election,

We should build more F-15;s for the “NORAD” mission!!!!! It has all of what we need! It has the lookdown– shoot down capability that we need! The F-35 is a multi-million dollar jet that we don’t need right away!

NO …the delays just mean the F16 out of service date is extended maybe to 2030 ( national guard included).
Another program would take 10 yrs just to get a prototype flying so the F35 will continue exactly as it is.

There were a lot of bad programs back then too. Lockheed featured in quite a few…remember the F104

What Norad mission. ? There isnt any ‘red’ bombers coming over the tundra anymore.

And the F15s only current warfighting mission is based in Dijoubti so that they can zap Al Quaeda trucks in the Yemen desert…ops that is a big secret.

Willy ? Kurt Tank was ahead of him as a peak aircraft designer.

And the US conglomerate ITT had a 25% stake in Focke Wulf before the war.

Nonsense . Cheney was the biggest program cutter when he was DefSec. The reasons are the same, over weight , over priced, well behind delivery dates.

The 1990s draw down began with Bush Sr.

Come on…The f-22 is due.

Back in the 1950s and 1960s tax rates were a lot higher and hi tech was not as expensive.

My nephew is in Air Force F-22 Avionics school. Because the planes are so expensive, they are not allowed to work on them. All training is computer simulation.

Maybe the USAF should do what the PLA does. Start businesses and use the profits to buy new weapons.

I think we should upgrade the F15, 16, and 18 with advances from the F-22 and F-35. The F15 is already receiving phased array (no more radar transeiver swinging back and forth) AESA radar. The Stealth Eagle/Silent Eagle mod is ready and only needs a buyer.

Exactly Paul.

I worked on a certain black box program where it took 3 years to get a simple change through. From using a fastener costing Millions to use, to a weld we had been performing for 20 years. We put forth this VERY simple change, had all the testing done in less than a month, and couldn’t get it through for 3!!! years. That is right, 3 years! If we didn’t have the bureaucratic DoD trash pencil pushers in the works we would have saved about $2Million to the taxpayers. Instead the bureaucratic idiots mucked up the works and instead of SAVING money we wound up spending an extra MILLION instead which we the taxpayer had to fork over.

This was a VERY simple fastener change! Don’t even get me started on more complex changes. There is nothing wrong with the F-35 that couldn’t be fixed by simply eliminating all of the Bureaucrats in the Defense department and let the engineers actually design and test instead of sitting on their thumbs under their posteriors waiting for the braid to get out of the way. Why? Because said braid gets S H I T canned if even minor problems occur by dumb DoD pencil pushers.

You want to save money? Fire everyone at the Defense Procurement Department. Just up and fire them all along with all of their procedural baloney. Slight exaggeration, but not by much. Base money for a product on its workability, reliability ‚and its life maintenance cost.

Oh no, occasionally a rogue procurement will go through as said endless mindless procedures aren’t there anymore. So we throw away a few million to some unscrupulous folks. That is why we have a Justice department. Use it. Instead we have layers upon layers of red tape dumped upon every company just on the small chance some company might be screwing over the government.

Only one getting screwed is the tax payer and our armed forces.

@ Allen

The cost per airframe for the F-35A model is $35,200 per flying hour. Its hardly worth it.

The F-35 will be totally useless in major conflict at anytime soon. There are some questions for testing the evidence.

Why is the Pentagon, USAF, USN and USMC are considering the strategically obsolete F-35 and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet given that both aircraft are grossly inferior to the Su-35S Super Flanker-E, upcoming PAK-FA and J-20 Mighty Dragon in close combat, and challenged in long range combat?

Why has the Pentagon, USAF, USN and USMC failed to address the Su-35S in any strategic planning?

Why has the Pentagon, USAF, USN and USMC failed to address the PAK-FA and J-20 and its future derivatives in any strategic planning?

Why has Pentagon, USAF, USN and USMC not introduced long range air-air missile capabilities in any strategic planning?

@ Allen — I’m not if you’re aware of this issue

Another reason why the F-35 is a wrong aircraft for your country and the allies is because the F-35 will be detected by the 55Zh6M Nebo M. This is a multi-band counter-stealth radar. The VHF band element in that radar will detect the F-35 at a distance of tens of miles. That is without a doubt. What that means is that the aircraft is going to be in great difficulty if it tries to deal with what I call a modern or contemporary threat. The same is also true when you deal with these newer stealth fighters, because they are designed to compete with the F-22. They fly higher; they are faster and more agile—much, much more agile. They have more powerful radars and much, much better antenna packages for other sensors. The lemon F-35 is not meeting its specifications and its specifications are inadequate to deal with the changed environment.

@ Allen

If the F-35 was to be able to meet its specifications, the aircraft will have the ability of going up against a 1980s Soviet air defence system of the type that we saw destroyed very effectively in Libya 12 months ago, the F-35 would be reasonably be effective in that environment, because these older Soviet radars would not see it.

But if you are putting F-35 up against the newer generation of much, much more powerful Russian radars and some of the newer Chinese radars, the aircraft is quite detectable, especially from behind, the upper side and from the lower sides as well.

@ Allen

The F-35 will also be detected by the L-Band AESA. It is used for targetting which they’ll be able to track LO/VLO stealth planes such as the F-35 especially from behind, the upper side and from the lower sides as well.

The back end of the F-35 in full afterburner is something like 1600 degrees (Fahrenheit). In terms of temperature, aluminium combusts at 1100. You are talking about something really, really hot. If you have got a dirty big sensor on the front of your Su-35S or your PAK-FA or whatever, it lights up like Christmas lights and there is nothing you can do about it. And the plume, because of the symmetric exhaust, is all over the place. It is not shielded, it is not ducted in any useful way.

@ Allen

I’m all familiar with these effusive comments that I see in the media about how wonderful the JSF is—it is a stealth fighter; it is invisible to enemy radar—but the reality is that stealth is not as much about invisibility but much more about being harder to detect than an ordinary aeroplane.

@ Allen

The typical measures that are applied are: what radars are you stealthy against and from what direction are you stealthy against that radar? There are various models, analogies or explanations that are used, but I think the simplest one is that different radars, because of how they are built, need different stealth characteristics to beat them. If we look at the current range of stealth aircraft out there, the ones that are difficult to see from nearly all directions and by a wide range of radars, are the big B-2A Spirit and the F-22 Raptor. The JSF really only has performance that would qualify as stealthy in the direction of over the aircraft’s nose. In other words, it is hard to see from the front but if you look at the aircraft from the sides or behind and below—looking up at it—the aircraft is in many instances only marginally better than a conventional aircraft. This is what I call “Partial Stealth” which the F-35 has.

@ Lance

Boeing Co. could seek joint-development partners in developing a true single-seat F-15F+ concept (based on the two-seat F-15E variant) which could further incorporate a supercruising 2-D or 3-D thrust vectoring either F100-PW-232 or F110-GE-132 engines, DEWS (Digital Electronic Warfare System) or defensible EWSP jammers, NG (Next Generation) 3-D touch screen cockpit display, Digital fly-by-wire flight control system, IRST sensor (either to be mounted next to the windshield or below the port air intake) and CFB (Conformal Weapons Bays) etc.

The Norad mission is still there. Think post 9/11 instead of Soviet bombers

Back in the eighties Ronald Reagan, a Republican, pumped money into the miltary for more wizbang weapons. While most military families were on food stamps or other government assistance. That’s when the “Great Human Exodus” from the military began. Reagan spent the money on weapons & weapon systems, not improving the everyday life of the average GI.

China will have a their ( Stolen Version ) of the ” L Band ” shortly if they don’t already. So their J-20 and J-11’s will also be able to detect the F-35 at long ranges. Plus the Russians are talking about upgrading their whole current Flanker fleet with the “L Band” because they will be flying well past 2025. So it’s not just the PA-50’s & SU-35’s we have to worry about. There will be hundreds of Aircraft available to both Nations that will be able to detect, then out maneuver, and then destroy the F-35, it’s tankers, and AWACS . We need more F-22’s plain and simple.

And almost all of the post Viet Nam drawdown happened or was “already in the pipline” that lead to the infamous “holow military” before Carter ever steped into the oval office.

But the “foamhearts” of the world keep insisting that the hollow military was ALL Carters fault and the post ODS drawdown was ALL Clintons fault.

They prefer the “mythology”

Where did you read that there would only be an additional 2k hours per airframe?

Losing faith in the F35? Not likely (deservedly or not) but I see your credibility took a huge hit…

There’s a lesson there.

Purportedly they will hopefully be extended from an 8k hr SLEP to a 10k hr SLEP.… ie 2k additional SLEP. Crossing fingers. And again.. the strategy does nothing to address the unintended but rapidly expanding near– and medium-term capability and deterrence-gaps (when stopgaps are arguably needed the most during unprecedented times of uncertainty, medium-term)… as it would at best, according to this plan, merely help bump up the total operational force structure during the 2025 to 2030 time-frame. That is, significantly fewer F-35s will ‘unexpectedly’ (surprise surprise) by part of the overall force structure now, going forward.

I thought the F16 was the Falcon, not Viper. Was it changed somewhere down the line?

What is an A-8?

Is it too late to build Boeing’s JSF? Lockheed sucks.

The same Boeing JSF that couldn’t get off the ground loaded in STOVL mode?

Actually there are “Red” bombers that have been showing up Alaskan airspace. Even Guam.

Hard to believe it has been 40 years gone. I remeber when these came out and they were so awesome. They did a great job over that time. Now just like anything new we all get old and will be replaced.

From the Twilight episode “The Passersby”

“Your life, Lavinia, well it’s … it’s kinda like a song. You play it right to the end, and when the notes are finished, and they die out, there’s only silence. And that’s when you move on.”

This is why I think we should upgrade the Harrier to make a Harrier III. It would be cheaper and better at CAS than both those options.

Offical name is Fighting Falcon, the nick name or pilots name is the Viper.

Post 9/11. Thats an F16 mission (& TSA ?) for the National Guard.

Exactly why they have F22s in Alaska ( & Hawaii). But F15Cs in continental states ?

F15 isnt even FBW. ( predates the F16) Makes no sense to stuff an a very old plane with new boxes.

My choice would be another 120 F-22s with updated avionics processors and latest technology stealth skin ( from F35) and send every single F15 C/D to the boneyard.

AV-8 ? But they have them allready. Then again he doesnt realise the F15 was made in two versions, interceptor ( A-D) and bombtruck ( E).

That’s all I could come up with, but to your point — the Marines obviously already have them (in fact, in US service, ONLY the Marines have them…)

That little number next to my name means absolutely nothing. It’s just a measure of how many people like what I have to say. As a friend of mine says, “if you go through life without making a few enemies, you’re doing it wrong.”

If it didn’t mean anything you’d still be using your old screen name.

The X-32 used the same basic method to achieve vertical lift as the Harrier. Even with a much more powerful engine, it was barely enough for the weight that comes with a supersonic, stealth design with internal weapons bays. Considering the design changes that would have occurred between the X-32 and “F-32″ it was probably not feasible.

If you went a “Harrier III” with much reduced requirements, it would still require a lot of work and the whole commonality idea is thrown out the window. The USAF and USN would need different design(s).

You are partially right. The Harrier has a high bypass turbofan. If you look into the intakes, it looks as if there is a CF-6 sitting right behind the pilot. It is mainly the cold bypass air that is diverted to create lift, so in that respect it is more like the F-35 that uses the sometimes-engaged horizontal fan to create lift. Of course, diverting air from a vertical plane fan doesn’t give you that potential hazard of the fan cutting the pilot in half in the case of an uncontained disk rupture like in the F-35, but the vertical Harrier fan does limit top speed to subsonic only.

Yes but F-22 production is DOA so the F-15 can do all the jobs as well. SO your point it mute, there is no more F-22s unfortunately.

The Saudi F-15SA IS fully FBW-controlled aircraft. As will be any other future Eagle variants.

The way to really get the benefits of commonality would be to ditch STOVL altogether and tell the prima donnas otherwise known as Marine fast jet aviation to shut up and fly SuperBugs and Cobras. Maybe give’em a tough, simple STOL CAS plane if it’s so goldarn important that they fly fixed-wing off their gators.

The tactically irrelevant obsession with STOVL is entirely responsible for the megabillion cluster…ummm… fiasco known as the JSF

I think it would be possible to evolve the the X-32 into a [USAF/USN] jointly developed cost-effective alternative platform. A major redesign though, if technically feasible on the X-32, could be to integrate twin-F414 EPE engines instead of the expensive and massive F135. Follow-on F414 upgrade could include next-gen Fluidic Thrust Vectoring? Perhaps study the addition of moving B-1B-type canards (downward angled forward fuselage) for lower approach-speed and improved slow-speed handling? Maybe study a redesign of the canted tails too, to be modified with smaller, lighter-weight F-23-type all-moving tail?

Also… Perhaps skip the internal bomb-bay altogether? Maximize all internal space for fuel, which would include even more internal fuel capacity due to the shorter F414 length and wrap-around capacity given the thinner engine diameter. A 4x AMRAAM class semi-recessed missile load could be substituted on the side-fuselage instead of the weapon bays and a centerline point could be added for drop tank or extra stores/pod. Also, possibly design a top-side CFT, a la Super Hornet CFT concept. For satisfying special-case LO strike requirements, under-wing LO weapon pods could be integrated.. Either that, or stealthy heavy-class long-range stand-off strike munitions would of course be optional.

Incorporate the Block III Super Hornet avionics… eg w/ planned APG-79 enhancements, follow-on Super Hornet mission computer and the planned touch-screen display? For improved electronic-awareness capability when necessary, the ALQ-218 passive receiver from the Grolwer could be integrated under the wings on some specially-wired airframes?

When configured with proposed CFT, the increased internal fuel fraction on this naval-capable modified medium-fighter concept (MMFC) could probably enable an 825nm combat radius or greater.

Could complete SDD by 2019 if started in FY14? Procure stop-gaps until around FY21, then begin a 30–35 total unit per year procurement model, for filling USAF and USN recapitalization requirements? Try procuring a total of 30–35 F-35A/C variants for USAF/USN under FRP and compare what the unit Weapon System cost would be?

Just some food for thought being kicking around… in response to the question posed above..

You care about what random people on the internet think about you? Good luck with that.

Sorry, everyone knows that stealth from the front is the only thing to worry about. Before our planes get there, all of the enemy ground and air threats will have been destroyed. [This is a recording.]. And how will those junky foreign planes be able to shoot ours down?

“We thought Japanese planes didn’t have the range to reach the Philippines from their home islands.” –Douglas MacArthur.

“Japanese pilots can’t see without thick glasses!” –common statement by US Intelligence officers in 1941–1945.

Most encrypted naval convoy messages during WW2, until 1943, were set in such a worthless coding system that the Germans were reading them almost immediately, which explains much of the damage to our convoys..

And so far, our information security on classified projects Like the F-22 and F-35 has been little more that a paper “keep out” sign against foreign intrusion. Of course, this statement should be qualified, but I don’t have to excuse every employee of every MIC company.

“Duh, what lessons of history?”

The P-51 took about three months. They had to put Merlins in to provide a “real” engine, but at the end of the war the major pilot complaint was how uncomfortable the cockpit was on long-distance missions. The real problem today is that these jerks won’t even START working until they get a very expensive contract. Before that, they produce little more than macquetes and Powerpoint slideshows. And the F-35 came out of a two-company race with Boeing, just like the F-22/F-23 race (and many still think the wrong plane lost). By the end of the war the country was so deeply in debt to War bonds that pentagon people were begging to NOT go on bond drives. Want THAT National Debt Level back? Before the Navy can get larger, they might get more support if the new ships they’re getting didn’t leak the day they were commissioned.

Due for what? We can’t even afford to fly the stupid things on real missions. Even McCain described them as “what may very well become the most expensive, corroding, hangar queen ever in the history of modern aviation.” It doesn’t help that it “requires more than 30 hours of maintenance for every hour that it spends in the skies.” [especially if they train their mechanics using computer simulations…].

Those are the guys on the beach, baby. They earned the right to dictate what was picked to back them up. Having a bunch of flyboys and bridge weenies tell them how to do their jobs is an insult. Fixed-wings don’t loiter long enough to insure correct target destruction, and helicopters are and always will be the most delicate weapon in the bag.

The Gripen NG is this part of the 21st century’s F-20, but better in every aspect. 200 degree AESA Radar, Advanced IRST, Super Cruises at Mach 1.2. It can Land and Take Off from an 800 meter road. Can use the new BVR Meteor Missile.
http://www.the desert​-fox​.com

No confidence that the guys at P&W and RR know what they are doing? The whole shaft-driven lift fan was *the* major accomplishment of the X-35 and proved far more workable to create a supersonic STOVL aircraft than the systems used by the X-32 and Harrier. Yes there is still “dead weight” and increased complexity, but less so than you would have if you used separate turbojets for lift. It was also deemed less risky than the method used by the McDonnell Douglas JSF proposal, which I still think should have been chosen for further development over Boeing’s design.

And powered by an engine that generates no more thrust than the original F100 on the F-16, meaning a limited payload, not ideal for a strike aircraft. It’s a nice light fighter good for the air-defense role, but it isn’t what the US or UK needs out of JSF.

Total BS. I was a member of Reagan’s (and Bush, Carter, etc’s) military and it was under Reagan that we got the pay raises to get the people OFF of food stamps. Under Carter was when my Petty Officers were working two jobs just to put food on the table.

And it was NEVER “most military families” on food stamps or other government assistance. It was a small percentage even under the worst of the Carter force.

Don’t you know that the thrust is only one vector among other? The f-414 is significantly lighter.

And what about the cost? Currently at >10M$ each, the f-135 engine is over 2 times more expensive than the f-414.

Along with a lot of other factors, like structural stress, dimension, air delivery, etc.

Why is the link that you present only have their front page working? ;-)

The F-22 is due for an OBOGS fix…

Time ;-) Just added the “Gripen presentation from Franborough ” PDF that was just released July 11th 2012.
http://​www​.the​-desert​-fox​.com/​i​m​a​g​e​s​/​s​t​o​r​i​e​s​/​G​rip

That’s definitely a fighter jet offering a plus-value, but I am skeptical about the accuracy of the fly-hours cost, especially when it have been paid by SAAB, and I would not start to code an apps for the grippen in java. :P

I mean it’s a marketing failure to compare aeronautic software to smartphone development. IMO that’s the best way to get blacklisted from potential customer. I am sure that there are tons of better terms to use. Lets say it’s a modular system where user have the possibility to customize and upgrade the tactical software as they need, which will be classified and exclusive.

I think they were using the “KISS” principle, a Politician and other Non Techies would understand the term ” App ” and be able to relate to the simplicity of “Updates” & Future Growth as compared to try to explain what is really done for the Upgrades.

Sometimes, you can build TOO complex an aircraft that takes so many ground maintenance hours to keep it airworthy for a single mission that its not really worth the major investment to build it.

@ Tee

Oh another thing I’ve forgot to add, the Sukhoi family of fighters will be armed with the AA-14 (K-172/R-100) Anti-AWACS/AEW&C killer missiles which can effectively destroy KC-135s, E-3 Sentry and 737 platforms with a range of 215 miles away.

What does the US & UK need right now. The Russians aren’t coming. If the Russians are coming, tell them to run up production on the SU-34 Fullback, the USAF needs a new penetrating Strike aircraft and in reality we are broke.
The Chinese have not been able to reclaim Taiwann in 60 years. Besides owning us financially, China imports 80% of its hay(yes, I said hay) from Utah and Idaho. A country that can’t feed its animals on its own can’t dominate the world.
Get used to it 2 heavy Army Divisions, 12 Stryker Brigades, 1 Airborne Division, 1 Marine Division, a 120 ship Navy with 6 carriers, 2 Expeditionary Air Wings, No land ICBMs, and 5 Air Defense wings(F-15SE). All coming in 20 years or less. On the brightside we will hire 25,000 newly documented union workers to guard the borders.

The F-16 is a truly great fighter and history is being made with the production line still in operation.

Problem here is that yes, the Saudi’s, Iraelies, have the latest F-16 models and they are state of the art. The U.S. Air Force still has the C models which are WORN OUT! I would like to see our Air Force trade in all of those worn out F-16s for the latest models. This is something we could do now and not have to wait years down the road.

@ TJRedneck

Greetings. Just to let you know the Saudi Air Force doesn’t have F-16s. They’ve got the Eurofighter Typhoon in their inventory.

I also agree that theu USAF should trade in all of those worn out F-16s for the latest models for instance the F-16V Viper.

I wonder if there is a Block 68 version of the F-16V variant in development? The guy I was to know in the hobby shop said to me he attended the conference meeting and one of his colleagues said to him Lockheed Martin maybe developing the F-16 Block 68 with bigger wings with more weapons payload. Or is it the Block 70 being talked about at the moment?

Can anyone find out please.

You’re right, there are ME countries that do fly the F-16 but those countries all look alike to me.

I am sure that your are privileged enough to have all the data necessary to make that claim, It is great that Russia, China, US( +LM) gave you a F-35 prototype and a test range and let you borrow one of these radar systems to test with the proper equipment and that you graced us with the test results . That was very nice of you. –NOT!

the Airforce wanted around 500 F-22s and they were retireing aircraft like the B-52 (not all– some ) , F-117 (all)and others to pay for the Raptors and then they were involved in a pissing contest with then Sec. of Defense , Robert Gates (A-hole in the first degree). Then they were fired and Mr. gates promised them that there would be no more F-22s built after the contract for 183 F-22s ran out, which Mr. Bush added 4 more so he could keep the production lines open until the Dem.s came into office. then we all know what happened next. The Dem.s kept a republican Sec.of Defense Robert Gates (A-hole in the first degree) , who by the way as part of his reason for not wanting the F-22 ( which is better in everyway than the F-35 ) ‚stated that China and Russia would not have even a stealth prototype until 2020. He was in China when they flew the J-20 just to smack him in the face, but he probably already knew that but lyed , because by the time they flew the J-20 the last Raptor was off the lineand the line was shut down.

it is pretty Sad that we let one man ( Robert Gates ) and a grudge against some Airforce generals , who went behind his back to try and get as many F-22s as possible, shut down the F-22 line. All because of a fight over power , we as a nation got robbed of many F-22s that we really need. The Raptor is better in every way than the F-35, except Bomb load which once you swarm a country with 300–400 Raptors each with 2 –1000 lb JDAMs to take out air defenses , than you can let in the F-15Es , F-16s ‚F-18s , and A-10s to take every thing else. who needs the F-35 when you have 500 F-22s ? — NOBODY !

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