Defense industry plays the jobs card

Defense industry plays the jobs card

Standing up and trying to explain how sequestration and the resulting defense cuts are a bad thing because the Air Force can’t buy planes and the Army will lose soldiers is going right over the public’s head. Three out of four Americans want to see the Pentagon take a healthy cut in these fiscally austere times, according to a survey done by the Program for Public Consultation, the Center for Public Integrity and the Stimson Center.

Instead, the defense industrial base hopes they can grab Americans’ fleeting attention spans with a report Tuesday morning that states sequestration will force defense companies to fire more than 1 million Americans. At 10 a.m. Tuesday, the Aerospace Industries Association will release a study done by a George Mason professor that states that sequestration will almost certainly cost America 1.09 million jobs over the next year and put another 600,000 federal jobs at risk.

AIA President Marion Blakey will stand up with U.S. Sen. Kelly Ayotte,R-N.H., and U.S. Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, D-N.H., and explain how the U.S. can ill afford to lose a million jobs when unemployment continues to sit above 8 percent. Of course, playing the jobs card is nothing new for the defense industrial base. Defense industrial execs such as Lockheed Martin’s Bob Stevens have already stood on their soap boxes and warned Congress that they will have to send slips in the mail warning their employees about massive layoffs four days before the national election.

Defense companies are very publicly declaring the threat of massive layoffs and then more quietly talking about their strategies to keep top talent in their work force and not running off to the Google’s of the world. Defense News spoke to a host of top execs at the Farnborough Airshow about the threats of sequestration and how they plan to keep their work forces intact.

What is immediately striking is Lockheed Martin’s practice of video taping employees on the assembly line to protect the company from the massive layoffs they saw in the ‘90s. Production came to a halt in some cases because they lost too many experienced workers who knew how to do the nuanced jobs found in production, Defense News writes.

The piece explains how defense industry executives don’t want to give their employees a reason to polish off their resumes and seek employment outside the military realm. They understand that once you get that ball rolling it’s hard to stop the momentum. Not to mention the fear it puts in potential future employees at a time when the defense industrial work force needs to get younger.

Expect more studies and more press conferences to talk jobs instead of bullets and fighter jets to sell Americans on the threat of sequestration. This isn’t the ‘80s in the heat of the Cold War with the Soviet Union lurking. Most Americans want the U.S. out of Afghanistan. They want to hear about getting more Americans back to work and fixing the economy.

The question then becomes whether its healthy to keep building up a military just too keep people employed. When did the Pentagon become a jobs program?

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Gee possibility of 1.06 million aerospace layoffs and 600,000 federal jobs. Wonder how much in Federal Income tax, Social Security and Medicare taxes will be lost thus adding to the Obama deficit as we all will go on unemployment, draw food stamp and Medicaid like the others who worship Obama do.

I still say if all the Republicans and those Democrats who do not believe in Obama economic ideas were to quit work hjow long could the Unions can keep America going?

Top talent in the defense industry? Laughable! If they could make it in Google, they’d already be there…
You do have to worry about the skilled workers on production lines though. You lose them and it’s almost impossible to get it back.

It’s all in the plan. This administration has a goal of decimating the “defacto” military industrial complex that concerned Eisenhower. They have no problem in destroying the very fabric of that industry and would see that as a “coup” against our democratic way of life. This is simply a destruction of a necessary resource for our military that is protecting our economic trading environment around the world. The more than $50 billion in automatic defense spending cuts set to go into effect in January is a drop in the bucket compared to what they eventually intend to accomplish. The industry, the jobs, the people are all irrelevant as long as they can defeat our society.

I am as critical of wasteful defense programs, but I support this smart move by the AIA and these politicians. Sequestrian is nuts. You can cut defense, and tear this country apart even more, and not make any difference because the root of the problem is social security and health care spending. The Democrats are responsible for these monstrosities that threaten our economic future, they should have to reform those programs because that is where the problem is. Fire Obama too. He’s a terrible referee, unable to unify the American people. He divided us further through ramrodding the disgusting healthcare law (cost overrun of $1T over initial estimates dwarfs any defense program), he should lose his job. He cost the Democrats their majority in Congress, lost his political power, and is unable to further any sort of agenda or progress for the nation. The American people have rejected his agenda. Only danger is that Romney could possibly be an even worse President. American people would have to keep him on a very short leash.

What nonsense. It’s not the Obama deficit, it’s the Bush deficit; how patently unfair of you to know what Bush did to this country and then blame it on Obama. Winning isn’t the goal, you know; saving the country is. Obama is doing that, despite the best efforts of the GOP and people like you.

Here’s the choice: “shovel-ready” jobs or knowledge-worker jobs. That’s what this is about, though the AIA is too polite to state it in those terms. The Obama Administration and Democrats in Congress spent our Defense dollars on an $800B giveaway to Big Labor and Blue State bureaucrats, and now Defense programs are the bill-payer. Unfortunately, it’s too late to get it back.

Should the Federal Government be the tax collector for the states to fund domestic make-work and bailout programs, or should it fund “the common defense?” I think the voters will correct this problem in November; I only hope a new Republican White House and Senate will follow through in reversing the orgies of domestic and entitlement spending of the last five years.

Kudos to the AIA for its aggressive advocacy on behalf of the Defense industrial base!

BTW, raspberries to the author for the facile comment “when did the Pentagon become a jobs program?” Providing for the Common Defense is actually a legitimate Consitutional responsibility of the Federal Government, unlike bailing out bankrupt Blue State governments and Detroit automakers, bankrolling speculative investments in “Green Energy” startups, and funding make-work “shovel-ready” construction projects.

Jobs are the only currency the present Administration is trading in at the moment, though it seems to have a clear preference for steering Federal largesse toward state-funded or private sector union jobs, instead of the Defense sector projects that are within its proper Constitutional role.

What drugs are you on?

Duh.…Obama did this and Bushypoo did that…fact is they are both responsiblefor the mess this country is in. And after November when Obama gets in his 2nd term, you can bet that itwill get much worse.


Oh boy lets give the Obama clan thumbs up our fourth point of contact aqards for finishing what Bushypoo and his merry band of idiots did not complete the first time. Pilifering the defense sector for savingsis not the way to go…especially when it so small to begin with. Cutting nukes, infantry unit and support units, bombers and fighters, and all those gee whiz weapon systems is not the way to go. But yet,health care is outof this world price wise, most of America’s working base is out of work, and we are wasting money like it was gas in our cars.…2thumbs up for hope and change

Alex many GOP will plainly admit that Bush was a bad President. However are you able to understand that the seeds for the budget deficit problem were sown before Bush? Do you understand that creating & enlarging the entitlement programs SS, Medicaid, and Medicare were & are all part of the liberal/Democrats agenda, and in fact are the reason for the tens if not hundreds of trillions of dollars in unfunded liabilities in the future? You are aware that these liabilities and paying the interest of those liabilities are the reason why we cannot cut taxes and/or make capital investments to grow the economy?? Do you want to be fair and set the record straight, or do you believe that the US was all peaches & cream until Bush took over in 2000??

Blame the idiots in Congress that came up with this plan, vote them out in November.

Its the industry and Generals who bought overpriced items who helped make this whole situation. They can Handel more cuts there just trying to save there BIG money grabs.

i agree with you there is much waste and ‘luxury items’ in the defense budget and it is disgusting. however, there are also a lot of unfunded requirements and major vulnerabilities. if we cut the defense top line drastically, it sends a bad signal to DoD & industry that can result in cascading problems. Sequestration is not a good policy to address this problem. Demanding efficiency and holding people accountable are better options.

Huh? Ofailure has wrecked our nation

1.09 million jobs lost because they government did not spend money it does not have! What a travesty. The govenrment should be borrowing us rich instead of cutting back on expenditures like any family in America would have to when they can’t balance their budget. Of course, the other thing about that 1.09 million jobs they don’t mention is 400,000 of them are in countries other than the US. Subsidizing the world with our children’s tax money. I bet they don’t refer to this as the “greatest generation.” Maybe the biggest bunch of whiners.

Wrong much? We now have the highest corporate tax rates of all industrialize nations, everything Obama has pretended to do to get the economy going has been the total antithesis to anything anyone with a modicum of business sense/education would do, and Obama continues to find more ways to regulate and siphon off money from the private sector.

Please don’t reproduce, operate heavy equipment, or seek positions of power, authority, or influence; you’re not qualified.

It’s time to say, “Obama did it.”

Just more of that Qur’anic taqiyya to throw the unwitting off the trail.

We’ve got ourselves another outbreak of Bush Derangement Syndrome. Alert the CDC!

Read s l o w e r…it actually makes sense if you can force yourself to actually think about it.

I’d tell you where to put those thumbs, but I’m pretty sure you’re already engaged in a complicated game of “switch” that involves both of them and your head.

Who needs drugs, huh?

If the truth were ever told, I’m sure there are some drugs involved there somewhere.

You are correct in your statement but I would also add that the addition to the debt is also irrelevant.

Let sequestration happen! In the mean time the defense industry should publicize the list that will have to be fired and let it be known that the firing start as soon as it becomes apparent that the cuts is coming. If this shocks the voters then the democrats and Obama may not be reelected then the sequestration would not happen but if they are reelected then the unemployed workers both skilled and unskilled workers will be able to draw unemployment insurance for the next 99 weeks (they will not be able to find work at their current salary) and by that time there will be another congressional election which would then change it.

“even in a worst-case scenario, Pentagon spending will drop to a level that is … still $30 billion above what the U.S. spent on average during the Cold War.” Oh God, the humanity! What a colossal tragedy it would be if the defense industry were cut back to something more than the average defense spending during the Cold War when we actually had an enemy that was a credible threat.

It’s true that these program tend to make people lazy; make social security too generous and people will stop to work, and laugh in those who are working hard. Make healthcare free and people will abuse of it.

Unless the army end up building and taking care of the infrastructures, thing have to change.

Alex; you must love socialism! If he gets another four years — America is gone! Just like the Roman Empire!

>We now have the highest corporate tax rates of all industrialize nations

Taxes in canada are higher. Tax rate is one thing, the bracket is even more important. A canadian get the full tax rate as soon as he own more than 132,000$/year, while for an american it’s 372,000$/year!

Seeds for the deficit before 2000 ? Would that be the Clinton budget surplus ?

entitlement programs.. baby boomer demographic time bomb.. infinite cost risk exposure to health care expenses.. and you are aware of the party that was in power of Congress during those surplus years right?

Why the republicans vote for defense sequestration to begin with.
And it hits non– defense spending as well

Easy to do , just not allow Bush tax cuts to continue for the very rich.
The democrats will pass it in a heartbeat

Alrighty then.

Simple question: Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?

I still can’t shake the thought that the defense cuts will do some good. It might force the military to stop buying these gold plated white elephant projects like the F-35 and LCS, which aren’t necessary when our current equipment is just better than the rest of the worlds and will continue to be for a long time. We don’t have an enemy that can take us on one on one as we are now. The Chinese have a vast military, but they can’t do much with it beyond their borders. I think it’s best if America uses this time to cut back on some defense spending and start fixing the economy and getting out of debt.

The discussion would be better spent on how we keep our defense infrastructure healthy in austere times, instead of trying to save jobs we may no longer need.

They niavely believed the Democrats wouldn’t decimate the military.

“Silly Rabbit! Tricks are for kids!”

Moe — Another Obama voter along with Larry and Curly.

Would that be the same party in power during most of the Bush years

So the bit about the cuts being ‘across the board’ had them fooled. And they are automatic, no further legislation required .
And all this over a petty squabble over the debt ceiling, which didnt raise an eyebrow during the Bush years

The Republicans thought the threat to the country would motivate the Democrats to negotiate. Nieter side was supposed to want the cuts. The Dems totally fooled them.

Bush spent like a wildman but even he didn’t add $5 tril to our deby in less than one term.

You people really think there is one party more to blame than the other? You are both dupes for your respective sides of the coin. Both parties have used deficit spending to buy their ways into office and stay there once they get there. For one reason or another both sides of the aisle have voted to spend more than we take in to excess. Both have held #s strong enough to role back both entitlements and defense. Each party demonizes both and yet neither has taken any serious tab at the others sacred cows when they’ve had opportunity aplenty. Our budget is the way it is and we are in the debt we are in because both parties are crooked as tree roots and interested only in power and lining their buddies pockets.

It is all explained in G2mil http://​www​.g2mil​.com/​t​u​r​m​o​i​l​2​.​htm

no need to get snotty or insulting. your type of attitude makes it near impossible to make progress when discussing politics. i agree with you that both parties are to blame for deficit spending, however, the greater future cost risks are posed by entitlement & social insurance programs. programs on the discretionary side of the budget have to fight & compete for funding, and is under control through votes/apppropriation process. The Republicans in the House have passed many bills the last 2 years, and the Senate controlled Democrats will not even allow debate on them to take place. The breakdown to debate, negotiation, problem-solving, & progress are at the Senate & Presidency. Regardless of how bad of a mess we are current in, we have to figure out what is the best course of action from this point forward. You haven’t offered anything constructive.

Stalking me I see.
Thanks to you I just won a bet.

Now I have two trained Monkeys.

Reply Monkey

So you admit you support Obama.

Bush, the peoples and the banks spent like a wildman; and a worldwide crisis along with banking difficulties. Jobs were lost and money had to be injected (though it’s too early to say whether it will work as expected or not) to keep the banking system alive; that’s include buying back 2Trillion$ of depreciated real estate and injecting money. Heck even the more conservative Canadian banking system have secretly needed money, a mere 114B$.

Yes, but coming from a fellow muslim I didn’t expect that comment. Not that I’m saying all muslims declare jihad like you have in the past on these forums.

24 minutes ago @ Breitbart​.tv — Soldier Found Guilty i… · 1 reply · +1 points
“The whole town needs locked in the church and the church set on fire. IMO”

But wee, this president embraces many of your same values.

Will I vote against him? Of course. I’m just surprised that you are taking this position unless it’s a set up for later al taqiyya.

if you want to cure a disease, you have to use the proper medicine. the way to get the military to stop buying gold plated white elephants, is to get the military to stop buying gold plated white elephants. but too many babies will be thrown out with the bath water if sequestration happens. there are vital missions and huge gaps that are already underfunded — do we really want all missions & programs to suffer due to the multi billion $ failures in the major acquisition program modernization portfolio?? no. we need to get more efficient with a flat to slightly increasing DoD topline. A slightly reducing topline might be supportable, if we had good analysis and smart leaders & policy, we could reduce defense total spending and not increase risk to national security. Unfortunately, that is too big of an “if”.

there you go. the entitlement mindset is at the rotten core of our culture. how can the country survive if people have an entitlement mindset, when only a sacrificial mindset can make a country work?

You bring up several issues.
1) you only used part of my quote, why not use the entire thing?
2)you are violating the tos by going off topic as usual, and the insults of course.

Wee, why won’t you admit you’re muslim so there can be an honest debate? Obama makes it policy to visit mosques on his overseas visits. Are you upset with him for not being sharia enough?

1)I did use the entire thing. 2) We were having a debate until YOU came along and derailed the thread and took us off topic. If you would have not stalked me over here and insulted me in the first place we would not be having this conversation <DIV style=“FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV style=“FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt”> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV style=“BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px”></DIV>

I agree that is too big of an “if.” However, the defense cuts are much more of a reality. They aren’t a perfect solution to the problem, but they’re a solution that is tangible.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a defense site that was so anti-defense as this one.

I wasn’t talking to you, jackass. YOU approached ME. I guess that makes YOU the stalker, doesn’t it?

Anti-defence? Can you point me out the “anti-defence” part, because I don’t see it. Any anti-defence website would talk a lot more about f-35, and on a totally different aspect. Or better, this article that I saw on google news about the pentagon negociating his contract with lockheed, having for picture a guy playing violon. Strangely that picture was only on google news, it seems to have been replaced on the news website.

What are you waiting to elaborate?

This site is not only about defense, but over all strategy. We not only need to think about what’s best for the military, but what is best for the country and how that relates to the needs of the military. In some cases it is more important to focus on rebuilding the economy rather than making high-grade weapon systems.

We are all supposed to panic because the industry is being cut back to the level of defense spending we had in 2007? Hell, I had a defense job in 2007, and if it was hanging by a thread, no one thought to mention it at the time.

The people who are anti-defense are those who are for the status quo. If you think we should continue to pay more and get less, you are f’ed up in the head. That’s not the same as being a patriot, just like you didn’t have to be for slavery in the 1800’s to be be a patriot, or for child labor coal mines and steel mills in the 1900’s to be a patriot. If this country were perfect as it is, then we wouldn’t need democracy, because democracy is all about change. We wouldn’t need legislatures either, because the law would be perfect as it was. What we really need is people who will use the means at our disposal for peaceful change to fix what has gone wrong, including our free press. If you think everything is just wonderful as it is, well, you’re entitled to your opinion, but maybe you’d better stop smoking that shit and take a look around you.

you should panic because Yahoo can get hacked (meaning anyone can get hacked) and your passwords & privacy posted online in a heartbeat. you should panic because within DoD a PFC can download massive amount of TS info to a Lady Gaga CD and post that online most rickey tick. you can panic because the Army would promote a radical Muslim to Major, give him a TS and access to people’s intimate problems, and then shoot everyone up. you should panic because how many (?) terrorist attacks since 9/11 have been averted by the slimmest of margins (shoe bomber, underwear bomber). We have huge gaps in our national security that are not being resourced. If you cut the defense topline that problem is exacerbated and already untolerable risk is increased. I don’t know why you’re ranting to BlackOwl about this anyway, he is NOT about maintaining the “status quo”, and he is on public record with his arguments that things are NOT “wonderful as it is”, so there’s no reason to even joke that he is smoking XXXX.

Alex, you idot, You have to remember, if you can, that Obama and the DemocRATS controlled congress and the Senate during the last few years of Bush’s term. So if anything he inherited a problems that HE and the DemocRATS created but like all DemocRATS it is easiler to blame any body else than themselves, get your head out of your?

Yeah, those desert dwelling fools are waaaay more scary than having several thousand nukes aimed at your country, which is only a button press away from annihilation . Get a grip.

Remember the defense industry which the constitution says “Must Provide for the Common Defense” is getting half the budget cuts while everything else is SHARING in the other half of the cuts, and the constitution says “Will promote General Welfare” which is not the same “Welfare” that the DemocRATS will use in their definition of it

Remember DemocRTAS keeping people of Governement programs so they will have a voting block

The “throw money at it” solution has worked so well up to now, why quit? After all, it’s making the CEO’s of the defense giants rich, and that’s what’s really important.

Don’t bother to let facts get in the way of your prejudices. Since more and more of the defense budget is spent on Pay and Benefits (especially Medical), the amount actually going to the Defense Industry will be much much smaller than during the Cold War.

Defense spending is thirty billion above what it was during the Cold War, which is about twenty-five percent. Meanwhile, the US GDP is about three HUNDRED percent what it was during the Cold War. Complaining about the absolute-dollars increase in defense spending is another form of “back when I was a kid, soda cost a nickel!”

“The question then becomes whether its healthy to keep building up a military just too keep people employed.”

It’s a jobs program that’s given us microprocessors, high-bandwidth Internet connections, accurate and timely weather reporting, maps of the entire planet, accurate navigation via a device smaller than your hand, autonomous vehicles, cheap air travel, and improved medical technology.

If that’s a jobs program, I’d say it’s paid off.

Besides, is a jobs program really such an awful thing when the jobs are going to people with PhDs in rocket science?

Having worked in production lines and IT I can say for a fact that replacing IT talent is much more difficult than replacing production line talent.

i agree. there’s much waste, which is inexcusable. but the benefits have outweighed the costs.

Like hell.

Probably too complex for you, but maybe someone else would like to give it a try: http://​www​.bls​.gov/​d​a​t​a​/​i​n​f​l​a​t​i​o​n​_​c​a​l​c​u​l​a​t​o​r​.​h​tm/

We need socialism. Capitalism will never work. Same old refrain from the MIC reps.

I’d sure like to know where Dfens lives where there is no credible threat to national security? It must be an idyllic place.….…where the twin towers are still standing and hundreds of orphans still have parents. Must be nice. If you are ever in a catastrophic situation I imagine you would be beyond proud and relieved to have the comfort of knowing our nation’s military is the best trained, equipped and skilled in the world. A patriot, you are not.

Guess many Americans are so brain washed they believe what they are told, well I am not telling you anything new here it is written in history by dropping / cutting back on our military defense we become less powerless and able to make strong negotiations when dealing with the Countries that hate America.
Besides that Americans better be getting ready for the next great depression and to those that think social security is the main problem must have been born with a gold spoon in their mouth, and people better get ready to do the jobs that require you to sweat and labor in order to survive.

I resent the Google comment. Why don’t you say something based on real merit instead of your personal opinion!

Talking about me though huh honey?

How about our blood, sweat and tears. Let alone our childrens tax money.

Before any programs, weapons or equipment are cut, people will go.

I believe a congress that had both dems and repubs in it borrowed money from SS and never paid it back. I believe the two parties were duped into attacking IRAQ based on bad decisions by Bush Cheney and Rumsfeld. Even Bush’s dad has come out saying he thought that was a bad move. You want to talk about bad decisions that have a lasting effect, How long will be paying for that war and the one winding down in Afghanistan? At least two generations will be paying the cost of those two wars. And then let’s mention the tens of thousands of young lives lost in those wars and the positive effect they would have had back home had it not been for those wars. Let’s talk about ignorant ass spending congress has been making for decades based on the lobbyist who have them in their pockets and then you get Supreme Court Justices wanting to make policy on the bench with the Corporations are people too bullshit and that is why we are stagnant. Don’t believe the hype Rush feeds the conservatives. This is a two party system and both can have their share of blame here and it all sits at the feet of Congress and the corporations that bought them their elections.


If we’d spend smartly, we could probably have most of what we want/need and still not have to lay off anyone. Had a hard drive go bad on a piece of equipment. It’s a 2.5″ IDE drive — same as a laptop. Thought it might still be under warranty, so called the contractor. It is NOT under warranty anymore but they will send us a new drive in 45 days for only $645. Seriously, the drives are available online for anywhere from $30 to $100. Yes, this is negligible in the scheme of things, not even worth mentioning. However when you have the same thing going on with multi-million and multi-billion dollar projects, that really starts to add up.
The purpose of the military is to provide a common defense of the U.S. not to provide jobs. Ike warned us away from the military industrial complex. We didn’t listen.

Nonsense. Pure hogwash, runningbear. If you buy the extortion of the defense industry, you truly are a dittohead sucker. The defense industry is the biggest welfare recipient in history.

Bush was responsible for this mess we’re in, you know, Mr “Mission Accopmplished”. You really have a short memory “chaotician”. You forget about the wanton spending by HalliBush, Inc. for oil. They left the problem for Obama to fix, which he is trying to do DESPITE the seditious behavior of the republiCon congress. Turn off fox & the Limpbag ad pay attention.

Kudos for corporate welfare, eh? Wow… don’t get it do you?

You mean of course, the defense industry corporate welfare entitlements, right? Like Halliburton and the likes?

So much misinformation and personal prejudice.
(1) The constitution provides as much a reason to spend “for the general welfare” as for the national defense. So there is no argument that Pentagon spending is legitimate and domestic spending not.
(2) The Pentagon spent wildly for junk decade after decade for marginal capabilities. That means politicians, generals and admirals are really poor program managers and even worse at judging threats and technologies.
(3) The economy tanked and neither a Republican (on whose watch it occurred) or a Democrat (who continued to pump borrowed money into it) both mistakenly believe they can fix it.
(4) When neither the President nor the Congress can make the tough decisions they were hired to do, the cut silly deals like the Budget Control Act.

Part 2 — (5) The federal bureacracy runs itself, regardless of who is President.
(6) The budget was incrementally increased over the years, so let it be incrementally decreased via sequestration, although at a slightly faster rate.
(7) The US is broke and the military is doing too much too many places. Time to let other countries do their fair share.
(8) The generals and admirals are warfighters. They can take a little sequestration. After all, they wasted multiple billions of dollars over the years, and should man-up when its time to cut off the unlimited credit card.

About all you can surmise from Bubba’s comment is that he hasn’t a grasp of the kinds of problems some people solve for the defense industry.

Well we better get wiser and stop being deceived by the media and some of the senators in Washington. In November the only thing that could possibly change is the “Commander and Chief”. I have yet to see a single President in this nation make all the decisions and approved them without having votes from both parties in the House and the Senate. This national crisis is much bigger than one person. We are in the mist of a gobal economic problem. I am surprised how mislead we can be and miss what has been happening in Washington the past few years. This is not just about the current administration. All of the bailout did not occur under this administration. It took years for our country to get into this financial diliema. If the americans expect to see immediate change in Washington after November they better consider voting the rest of the leaders in the senate out. Vote leaders in who will work together. I have had it with all the personal issue and fighting among republicians and democrats. It is going to take years for us get out of it.

Because there is a huge untapped market for commercial armored fighting vehicles and jet interceptors, and dealing with the government is just like dealing with any other customer right?

Oh and lets not forget all of the money related to operational costs of fighting a war, a figure which subtracts from that which can go towards modernization and equipment purchases.

Pitting domestic programs that work to uplift our citizenry and repair/upgrade our infrastructure are not liberal ideas Chaostician, they are SOUND ideas. We’re a wholly military family and do not allow ANYONE to spoon feed us pundit pandering to the RW or LW. This country hasn’t had fairness and equality throughout its history (see Jim Crow, racism, sexism, hate crimes, robber barons, abuse and abandonment of veterans esp. displaced vets who are/were homeless upon their returns from service deployments etc.) It is only when we all agree to work together to fix the socio-economic problems that face this country and stop factionalizing and infighting along with a major push for equality for all American workers will we be able to aspire to be the country that we were ever intended to be. American history is replete from Revolutionary times to the present with the rises and falls of our socio-economic fortunes — that’s the fallacy of betting the house on materialism and the philosophy of you are what own Jurassic mentality. Evolve and stop labeling folks and you might be surprised how much we can and do get done. I work in the public sector with very little resources to help the most vulnerable populations and I work with people from all different orientations and strata and when working to common goals whether balancing the budget, fair allocation of the American Treasury or interpreting the rule of law, it works only when we all agree to work together. Are you listening Congress?

No, he got it right. Those are liberal ideas. The gov’t doesn’t raise the people. The people raise themselves. That’s AMERICAN exceptionalism and rugged individualism.

Your stupidity almost leaves me speechless. Obama has spent more in less than a full term than Bush and co did in two terms. You’re the last person to tell anyone to turn off the TV or radio.

It’s right past the meadow with the candycane trees then take a left at the unicorn.

shell you misunderstand me. I agree with the need to have SS, medicare, and medicaid. i support a ‘safety net’. however the programs were badly conceived in that they did not cost control mechanisms. they should be capped at a % of the federal budget for example. the data shows they are eating more and more of the budget, likely on track to crowd out the entire discretionary programs.. trillions upon trillions of unfunded liabilities — which Obama & the obstinate Democrats made worse with ACA. Did you see the latest data on the cost overrun to implement ACA? Something like $1T+ cost overrun — dwarfing the worst performance in the defense acquisition portfolio.
i won’t argue with you about unfairness. and i admire much of the liberal agenda & accomplishments there. “it is only when we all agree”.. now that sounds like a naive liberal fantasyland there. we aren’t SUPPOSED to agree and your call to “stop facionalizing and infighting” is rather hypocritical, since Democrats use these tactics quite often.

you’re confusing ‘entitlement’ with ‘doing work required and contracted for’. there’s a lot of corruption and waste that is inexcusable, and politics messes a lot of things up. but there’s a big difference between social insurance/entitlement, and doing contracted work. have YOU ever worked on a contract???

Typical Dumocrat. Spouts insults and lies, points the finger at everyone else but offers no solution. What a windbag! Probably on public assistence, using a government supplied computer.

You very obviously have zero idea what it takes to work an acquisition for a major weapon system. The typical program office has program managers, engineers, equipment specialists, financial people, contracting and so on. Most are ex military, and very dedicated professionals. These are what takes years and years to train, not the assembly line folks. What is laughable is your dumbass statement. here is a website more to your IQ…”

Lance, did you go to school? Did they teach English at your school?

It may be a million jobs, if that is the total, they won’t all be in the US. A huge percentage of our military products are made over seas in Europe now. In fact, bring back the contracts our congress made for over there, with there political tit-for-tat games, and the problem is probably solved, not to mention improving the balance of trade.

How about showing us the actural data that you have that shows that huge percentyages of military proucts are made overseas. I don’t think you can produce it

Maybe if you would “pay attention” to your spelling, grammar, and factual accuracy I could take you seriously. You’re providing compelling evidence for the damage that foolish liberalism causes.

Because money that’s not soaked up by the military is used in the private sector — you know where the real capitalists prove every day how much socialism, and especially the fas cist socialism our military industrial complex loves so much, sucks.

Small people have small enemies.

It’s unfortunate that our elected officials allowed this situation to take place in the first place. I doubt many of us want to be at war again, but a strong military is important in times of political uncertainties. What people don’t seem to realize is that our last ‘peace dividend’ resulted in a very difficult (and expensive) rebuilding in many areas necessary to supporting our military. I would hope that common sense prevails and we do not repeat the past. And in certain area of defense, we almost didn’t rebuild our industrial base in time. Yet no one seems willing to admit how easily we can fall back into the same situation. I believe it’s better to be well prepared rather than unprepared. There is always a balance involving the costs of our military strength and social programs, and the taxes needed to fund our government. I don’t believe that sequestration is the answer. It seems we are destined to repeat the past…being without a long term view for the health of our nation. We only need to view Europe to see the results of unrestricted spending. We cannot continue to spend trillions of dollars more than the government collects in taxes and remain a healthy nation.

Cut all, repeat, all the military programs. We don’t need better rockets, airplanes, ships, etc to beat the
Taliban or the Terrorist. All we need is guts and a couple of rifles!. If the military wants more expensive,
useless toys then let them hold a cake sale. I have seen too much waste in the military and the
companies like Lockheed ripping off the tax payers. I’m mad as hell or as my Aunt Joan wold say
“Monkey Muffins”.

are you a Democrat? If so you are making a pretty good case why they need to be removed from political power.

military spending % of GDP vs health care spending % of GDP .… Drug giant Glaxo pleads guilty ($3B fine) for illegal promotion of drugs for purposes other than which the drugs are approved for. Paxil & Wellbutrin to children to cure all ills such as weight loss, sexual dysfunction, substance abuse, and ADD. Are you SOOOO confident that “real capitalists” are the solution to the world’s problems? You should look up the definitions of facism and socialism while you are at it. I think you are so blinded by hatred that your judgment is very clouded, or you are intentionally spouting arguments you don’t believe in. Please tell us — what specifically in your experience has got you hurt so bad? Also I’d like if you could drop the “cost plus evil contracting” broken record rant. When you pay for any difficult services, like work on your car or your plumbing, the service provider is charging you for their labor hours & material, because it is too RISKY to charge a fixed price when you don’t know how long it will take to perform a complex function. The great capitalist you are should understand that.

Google would not exist without the satellites, launch vehicles, internet, micro electronics, etc.
I have worked in the defense industry for 50 years. Maybe you could get a job using your cell phone.

Dude, you are truly clueless. Fees for service are not welfare. BTW, the Defense industry is one of the most heavily, lowest profit industries in America. Defense programs rarely return more than 9–10% profit to our shareholders.

You’re clearly swilling the same “you didn’t build that” kool-aid as the President and his fellow travelers.

So we should let the Democrats hold our national security hostage so they can extort yet more ransom from the private sector to continue to fund the Entitlement State and public sector unions. Yeah, that’s real courage. Just feed the leeches.

Look at the US Navy’s shipbuilding plan. I don’t like LCS any more than you do, but the fleet is declining in real numbers just as China’s massive naval buildup is getting into full swing and nearly-nuclear Iran is threatening to close the SOH. Reagan’s 600 ship navy is a distant memory as the Navy struggles to keep the current fleet above 300. And that is without the sequestration meat axe.

Defense spending is just 3% of GDP. While there’s waste in the Defense budget (there always is in government programs…it’s just a consequence of large bureaucracies), that’s not where the problem is. The problem is the massively out-of-control entitlement spending and the cost of servicing the debt.

I think AIA has looked at that angle. Industry is telling the taxpayers that they’re starting to hit bone.

Turns out the desert-dwellers are building nukes, too. And closing shipping lanes in the Strait of Hormuz. And as far as I can tell, we still have several thousand nukes aimed at our country…and one of the button-owners is getting very ambitious about annexing itself some lebensraum in the South and East China Seas.

So your rationale for indiscriminately slashing defense procurement is threat-based?

Not sure what you’re saying here. The Defense industry is somewhat unique in that it is a market which consists only of one Customer, excepting only those additional export customers which The Customer permits its suppliers to service.

Not sure what you’re trying to say. The record of achieving US security objectives by negotiating from a position of weakness with countries that hate America is not a good one.

Most of you think that cuts to the military would destroy our ability to be safe. There’s no reason to fear, even if the cuts result in layoffs the military machine capacity is still going to be there. The DOD will just grease it up and cover it with cheese cloth and leave it in place. If something would happen they can bring it back online within 30 days. I am also 100% sure that past workers would return in droves if the US were in any trouble militarily. I seen this near my home, the ARMY wanted new 105 shells and a plant near me (Presto, yes the small appliance company) that was moth balled produced shells within 30 days for consideration. And yes it’s the DOD that pays for this ready capacity.

If the Preamble is the extent of your constitutional argument, I recommend you enroll yourself in the 200 level civics course. The Federal Government is uniquely charged with national security, as it is the only entity with the capacity to provide for the nation’s defense. We tried that Articles of Confederation thing, and as General Washington found that didn’t work very well. Jefferson would be horrified to see the extent of Federal spending on domestic programs, which he considered to be the exclusive purview of state governments and private enterprise.

Agree with you strongly on points 3 and 4, however.

Squid it is interesting that you bring up shipbuilding! I’m reading “Front Burner” Col Lippold’s book about the USS Cole bombing. I found it interesting that the reason the Cole was refueling in Aden was due to a shortage of oilers/resupply ships. Maybe it was an economic decision that resulted in ships refueling in overseas ports vs at seas, and look at what additional risk that sort of decision making created. I’m curious your perspective on other risks assorted with cutting the defense top line. Such as what are the risks in reducing # of aircraft carriers from 11 to 8? Or some of the other possible proposals?

There you go Bill, still fighting the last war. And you can beat AQ and the Taliban just by your Luddite self alone and unafraid with your K-Bar knife and your guts. Guess as it turns out we didn’t need satellite comms, overhead ISR, UAVs, helos, night-vision gear, body armor, counter-IED cells, long-range transports, wide-area surveillance… You might want to go back and look at how the SEALS knew which door to kick down when they double-tapped UBL. And how they got there.

None of which is necessarily important for containing Iran or balancing and deterring Russia and China.

You’ve got my vote for the dumbest DoDBuzz post ever.

Because the Republicans went wobbly.

TARP may have been a bipartisan boondoggle, but the Obama spending spree is without any historical precedent.

It wasn’t GWB who gave us the $800B stimulus, with its imaginary shovel-ready jobs, and his promise that it would hold unemployment below 8%. It wasn’t GWB who bailed out GM and Chrysler (and the UAW’s extortionate benefits packages). It wasn’t GWB that gave us Obamacare. And remember, even in the last two years of the Bush Administration, it was a Democratic Congress that really opened the spending floodgates. At least GWB and the Republicans were dragged into the bank bailouts. The Obamanauts are positively giddy about consuming the private sector.

It’s not defense spending (which remains at 3% GDP) that is breaking the nation’s piggybank…it’s domestic spending. That’s not Bush’s fault.

When did the pentagon become a jobs program? After WWII.

When did the pentagon become a jobs program? WWII.

There you go, capitalism could never work.

Yeah, because the Democrats are socialists, unlike the military-industrial complex that’s all about capitalism… except when they’re telling you how capitalism could never work.

Dammit, Bill, don’t you know it takes far more money to fight a bunch of Taliban armed with broken down AK-47’s than it did to take on the Soviet Union with all of their nukes? Wow, it’s hard to even type that with a straight face.

Do you all really believe the military buys all that stuff? How naive-the politicians run a pretty good shell game don’t they?

We could build a spy satellite to find which hilltop the terrorists are hiding on, a drone to track them as they enter and leave the house, a satellite-guided missile to blow them up with a shaped-charge warhead to punch a hole right through the wall of the room they’re in.

Or we could build a bunch of HE shells and obliterate the entire village, killing dozens of people and leaving a bunch of pissed-off survivors who’ll grow up to be suicide bombers.

Your call about which is better.

How about corporate welfare like Solyndra, Chrysler and AIG? Oh, and you might want to look at when Halliburton was actually signed to their sole source contract, it was under CLINTON

People seem to forget that this all started with that idiotic bipartisan committee that was suppose to recommend substantial cuts to get our budget to rein in the debt. Bunch of D.C. idiots.

Whatever Congress can do, it can UNDO. There’ll be a last minute deal that will “save the day” and our national debt will continue to climb.

We are so screwed.

Good Morning Folks,

The jobs blackmail by the defense industry its deplorable, also the DoD job is to defend the United States, not as a job generator. We have been at war for over ten years the defense industry has gotten fat off that, Iraq is over and Afghanistan will soon be also its time to get back to normal in defense spending ands to asset the need for major defense programs such as the bloated F-35 to which the USNavy is now say the could do without F-35 and would prefer to work on a sixth generation F/A that would replace the F/AS18 E/F/G that would be ready in the mid 2020’s.

Byron Skinner

Yep, you got me. I’m a meanie midget.

So it’s a job’s program. So what? It’s one of few that happen to have a Constitutional basis, unlike say, EVERYTHING in the TARP program(s). So saving GM is somehow more important than saving Boeing, or Lockheed? Would the current administration enjoy the new unemployment numbers post sequestration anymore than they surely are now? Good luck there.

question was for bill alves, excuse you.

you’re weak.. guess we’ll have to hear more and more of the broken record over and over again

who are you people and why are you intentionally dumbing down this website? who do you represent and what is your agenda?

” Gee possibility of 1.06 million aerospace layoffs and 600,000 federal jobs. Wonder how much in Federal Income tax, Social Security and Medicare taxes will be lost ”

Do you really want to spend 50 billions dollars/year to get just a fraction of it (30% maybe) back as Federal income Tax.

Dfens — stop trying to camouflage yourself as a defender of capitalism. You’re the whiner saying contractors charge $1.10 for a $1.00 worth of work. That’s capitalism you dunce!

bill — Give Aunt Joan a rifle.

SecretSquid — Excellent post. Eloquent and devastatingly effective.

Imagine that three “progresssive” polling institutions would support the administrations significant cutback on the department of defense.… Want to bet that they want troop strength and weapons cut and not union operations at the government level?

These greedy CEOs are the real problem from their overcharging the Government to their outsourcing of technical jobs to China and else where just so they can get their 10 million in bonuses and incentive packages. They will not pay money to train U.S. workers or to send them to school ‚but they will Send workers from USA over with blueprints to build factories and people to train the Chinese people to take American jobs. Then when they are about to loose a fat juicy government contract they pull out the Jobs card, and the Politicians are worse . They have been giving away America for the past 70 years and every year it gets worse. They both blame each other when actually they are doing it together, making huge amounts of money in the process. I read in a newspaper article that it takes an average of 5 million dollars to run for congress and in some cases as much as 15 million in certain states and cases. So what kind of people do we get in office if that is even close to the truth, RICH ones that never had to worry about how they are going to feed their kids or themselves, and all that money to run for a $400,000 per/year job.

Part 2
I think we should make everyone take a mental competence test and then draft people into senate and the House of Rep.s that way we will get folks from across the whole spectrum of this great land and turn this country around. And for those Top CEOs ‚if they cared about their workers they would split up their 10 million dollar bonuses and keep their employee employed. Between the greedy CEOs and greedy Politicians this dream of ours we call AMERICA will die if something does not change and change fast.

Is that bad old world scaring you so much that you have to take tax money American children just to keep your wimpy ass safe? Sucks to be you.

When I first got out of college and went to work for a large defense contractor the CEO made about 10 times what I made. Now that I’m on the other end of my career the CEO makes 400 times what I make, and he’s a bean counter that doesn’t have the intelligence to be allowed to carry that first CEO’s slide rule. That’s f’ed up.

Defense spending is still flat at 3% of GDP, Dfens. It’s entitlements that are eating our children’s inheritence.

Funny, too, that you seemed to be plenty scared of the bad old world when it was just Soviet nukes we were worried about.


Dfens, stop, breathe deeply, and go back an re-read my previous post–this time with your eyes open.

You seem to be operating under the mistaken belief that the only purpose for the US Defense Department is to defend Afghan goatherders.

You’re now tied with Bill.

No…we want to spend defense dollars to provide US soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines the best possible equipment to defend the nation. At the same time, the Defense Industry is a national asset, and it is uniquely vulnerable in that it serves a market with exactly one customer — the Federal Government.

If the Feds seek to stimulate the economy, it makes little sense to effectively take money it was planning to spend on the nation’s defense needs and use it instead to subsidize state government, Auto Industry, and make-work construction jobs, with the result that hundreds of thousands of high-skill defense jobs get eliminated. All that accomplishes is trading high-skill, high-wage defense jobs for mediocre low-skill jobs, and the taxpayers get no goods or services in return. How does THAT make any sense?

You don’t know much about the defense industry, do you, Ribby. Defense contracts rarely yield profits more than 9 or 10 %.

You want to know the secret to making a small fortune in the Defense Industry? Start with a large one.

Vote with your feet, Dfens. Or are you a just a serf? You choose to sell your labor to your company every day. Don’t like your boss? Fire him and hire yourself a new one.

Shut the hell up. You never have anything to say that’s not an insult. Doesn’t this site have moderators?

I bet you are a Liberal DemocRAT who believes what the DemocRATS say is right, remember DemocRATS have put more people on governement programs than anyone else

Read this about General Welfare remember the DemocRATS have changed it to fit their new agenda

The meaning of the word Welfare in the Constitution is different from its current usage. The constitutional meaning of welfare is:
1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being. [<ME wel faren, to fare well]

Welfare in today’s context also means organized efforts on the part of public or private organizations to benefit the poor, or simply public assistance. This is not the meaning of the word as used in the Constitution.

The over million are the jobs that will be lost in the US. They donot have the number for the forgein companys yet

GM has more Union employees than Boeing and Lockheed

That is 30% more than they will have if they delete these jobs. Also donot forget that is 30% less money for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment and paying of Government salaries and their retirement system, so where would the government get the money to cover all these programs? Not from me I and other americans are already supporting my family and two other familes who are on welfare

Just to ensure you’re not spouting misinformation, the Constitution actually states that the people shall provide for the common defense and promote the general Welfare. Two different verbs…provide and promote. James Madison stated that the “general welfare” clause was not intended to give Congress an open hand “to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare.” If by the “general welfare,” the Founding Fathers had meant any and all social, economic, or educational programs Congress wanted to create, there would have been no reason to list specific powers of Congress such as establishing courts and maintaining the armed forces. Those powers would simply have been included in one all-encompassing phrase, to “promote the general welfare.” Therefore it is obvious that our gov’t is in its right to provide for the common defense but NOT provide for the general welfare.

Read a lot about entitlement programs, let’s get one thing clear,

Social Security and Medicare is not an entitlement program as we have to pay taxes for our own retirement and medical coverage.

Medicaid and Food stamps are an entitlement program because you do not have to pay into it to get it comes out of the general tax funds, do you see anyone on Medicaid paying into a fund to cover their “FREE” medical coverage they get

Having worked for one of the big defense contractors as a young electrical engineer I can honestly say nothing is being accomplished except wasting time and money. I was appalled as a taxpayer, and bored out of my mind as an employee. I was constantly asked to charge the government for my time without any work to do!

I polished off my résumé and quit earlier this year. Best thing I ever did for my career, my sanity and the federal budget!

“This isn’t the ‘80s in the heat of the Cold War with the Soviet Union lurking. Most Americans want the U.S. out of Afghanistan. They want to hear about getting more Americans back to work and fixing the economy.

The question then becomes whether its healthy to keep building up a military just too keep people employed. When did the Pentagon become a jobs program?”

excellent point — thank you!

Coggy, is this what your’e reduced to?

We both know that the jobs aspect was during the depression recovery/ WW2 effort. The liberal president considered everything a jobs program as long as it sucked people onto the government payroll to be controlled by his oval office.

So, why are you here posting on this old story?


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