Services to Decide MRAPs Fate

Services to Decide MRAPs Fate

Leaders from the Army and the Marine Corps are expected to decide this month just how many MRAPs their services will need for future fights. And those requirement numbers can’t come too soon for officials in Joint Program Office Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles as they prepare to hand over joint control of all MRAPs to the services next year.

“Not one service, as of today … has decided what their enduring requirement is for MRAPs,” David Hansen, joint program manager for MRAP, said Dec. 5 at this year’s Defense Logistics Conference in Washington D.C. “Until they say that, we  can’t do a lot of forward planning for reset.”

On Sept. 30 of next year, the Pentagon’s fleet of about 28,000 MRAPs will be permanently transferred to the services when JPO MRAP closes for good.


The Marine Corps has always been the lead service for these heavily-armored trucks, but the Army currently owns 22,000 MRAPs.
“A lot of things may change; the Army may have less trucks in their enduring requirement than I think. They may have more trucks than I think – who knows – but we are kind of waiting for the Army which has 22,000 MRAPs to decide where the Army needs to go with MRAPS,” Hansen said.

Marine Corps leaders are scheduled to decide upon their service’s MRAP requirement on Dec. 13, Hansen said, adding that the Army has also scheduled a decision meeting on that same day.

It’s unclear when the Air Force and Navy make their MRAP number decisions. One factor that’s slowing the decision process may have to do with deciding which missions go to the new Joint Light Tactical Vehicle, the planned replacement for the Humvee.

“Does the MRAP fill some niche in the future, does it not? But every service has decided that it needs something in the future,” Hansen said. “They need to decide how many so they can decide how many they want to have active and how many they want to have in storage.”

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Reliable VIP transports for sale anyone?

We have tracks that have been around for 30+ years, why can’t the MRAPS sit by and wait for the next war?

Exactly, and those vehicles saved so many lives… I can’t believe that anyone really thinks we are through in the Middle East.…

While they are making up there minds they are loosing the support for the MRAPs because the contracts are not being renewed for the OEMs and the Army can not suppoet the vehcile on there own.

It is important, that whatever service decides, how many, the remainder should go to the National Guard, since they are constantly being called up to do the regular services’ work for them, while the lifers sit behind grey metal desks at the puzzle palace.

These costly hunks of junk, with essentially no long term combat military utility, are going to end up being handed over to America’s increasingly paramilitarized cops.

Podunk police departments all across the country are going to proudly boast their very own slightly used MRAPs, courtesy of the various federal Law Enforcement Assistance programs.

I read recently about a tiny burg in New Hampshire, with an almost undetectable crime rate, which is now equipped with its very own Lenco Bearcat armored vehicle thanks to the feds.

With an extensive list of advanced capabilities including its own onboard “radiation detector”. Because as we all know, al-Quaeda’s target list for dirty bombs surely will bypass major metro areas in favor of striking two-block-long towns in maple syrup country.

>al-Quaeda’s target list for dirty bombs surely will bypass major metro areas in favor of striking two-block-long towns in maple syrup country.

We can only hope

Considering the length of time that it takes to let the contracts, and get the vehicles into production, it is stupid to do anything other than to keep what you have, until you need them again. We have all of those aircraft being stored in the Arizona desert on the same basic principle. When the M-15 proved to be a bust as a combat rifle, they put the M-14s back on the line, and brought out the old M-1s for training. Once you cleaned it up, that was one sweet piece to shoot. I loved that rifle.

Our unofficial military doctrine now says we always lose insurgencies. Keeping th MRAP is like admitting that the army broken in Iraq and Afghanistan will continue to be wipped like a dog as it loses future insurgencies.

Well I hope the officials in charge do a better job than Don Rumsfeld did, he cancelled the mine resistant vehicles which had been on order by the Army before the Iraq invasion. I imagine since they were convinced they would be out in 90 days it just didn’t seem worth the effort. Too bad all those who lost service members didn’t have a say in Rumsfeld’s decision.…

These hunks of junk kept me and alot of other guys alive in iraq

I can see why you keep getting banned.

In case you haven’t noticed, law enforcement agencies are and have always been “paramilitary” organizations by definition. Even in the 1800’s when English bobbies became the first professional police force. In Rome, and the time of knights on horse back, there was no difference in the weapons or armor of those serving law enforcement purposes and those serving military purposes. I would assume you have a small understanding of how easily devastating average small arms can be to basic vehicles. IEDs wont go away and may end up on American streets and if not, I would rather the cops have an armored vehicle to conduct rescues in active shooter situations or barricaded gunmen situations where current armored vehicles routinely come under fire. I am assuming you would say LAPD hopping on board armored cars during the North Hollywood shootout is a misuse of their authority. In reference to your statement about the New Hampshire town, don’t go by old crime stats to determine whether or not you will ever need a SWAT team. Remember the Amish country shooting at that little school? Do you think if that turned into a stand off, a negotiator should have waltz right up to the door to talk about how their daddies knew each other and how they are both a couple of good ole boys so no need to shoot at us because were here to help you. If you think that is a sound method, be sure to volunteer at the next barricaded suspect situation you hear of.

Aside from the strange comments he tends to make, he may be indicating that he hopes they go for infrastructure rather than large concentrations of population therefore minimizing loss of life. Some small towns have no hope in even preparing for a terrorist attack, not to mention preventing or successfully responding to one in a way that minimizes damage and loss of life. Others do ok. Big cities have a huge funding advantage on their own and then receive further free money from DHS just for being a big city. On top of that, they have grant writing specialists that suck up huge amounts of grant money that could be used better by medium or small-medium sized cities. I think they should get one or the other. Not both. Those big cities end up using the money to free up money from other expenditures so they afford their pensions and other projects that people complain about when they see the light of day.

You don’t seriously believe that do you?

The Navy has the best trained EOD people in the world. These folks including my boy have served with distinction with and appreciation by the Army and Marines in “the Gan” these vehicles have been a critical com ponent of the war against IEDs and have saved countless lives.. The Navy should own some out right

I think they should give me one so that I can conduct a proper study of its high-speed rough terrain capabilities…

Good point!

That attitude is the reason the Guard sometimes gets the short end of the stick.

You may want to re-eval the Guard’s mission. Doing the regular services job? What happened to one force one fight?

Evidence?

Don’t give these to the Guard.. We already have UA Hummers that have weight isssues on the roads and have little room for equipment when you respond to the hurricane or tornado diaster. Depot the trucks for a “As Needed” basis.

I have a great idea for the MRAP, there is a place in Idaho that is called Orchards Training Area. It is the largest live fire impact training area on the west coast. What better place to set up a urban training area for live fire training in the MRAP. A couple 100 mill and you could train all the armed forces on how to drive and fight in these rigs effectivly. I know that when we did our train up on this equipment in mississippi tath the drivers got a total of 20 hours of road time on base with no terrain veriation and no actual weapons traing on the rig itself. Our mechanices didnt fair much better with hands on time.

Been there, nice place. The Guard is spending a fortune upgrading the ranges and building simulators there. They now call it the Orchard Combat Training Center.

Whatever happened to the greatest armored transportation vehicle since sliced bread in the army inventory?

The Stryker IFV or ahh POS. It is not even considered worth saveing. Another Fart in The Breeze.

“The” reason? Surely “a” reason, but nobody can argue there are no prejudicial AC attitudes toward the RC. To succeed, “One force, one fight” has to be a shared commitment. While the RC isn’t perfect, few can argue they haven’t held up their share since 9/11.

Unfortunately, in this environment, every AC/RC mix-related decision will be highly politicized, from inside the Pentagon to every Congressional district. Given this, I doubt any MRAP allocation plan will be rational.

The MRAP concept was flawed from the beginning because a way had to be found to make it very expensive. It also took a long time to implement.

There were already very cheap and battle tested vehicles in Southern Africa that would do the job. A troop carrier was cheaper than an unarmored humvee and would protect personell BETTER than the MRAP does.

The running gear was modular and expendable. Only the people were protected. This made it cheap. It could also be towed off the line and back running in a few hours.

One feature that was better was that the roofs were always soft, preventing overpressure buildups and preventing brain damage.

Perhaps we should just let jumper explain why he’d prefer the cities to be attacked, maximising American casualties.

Obviously you known nothing about professional policing. Its not the military lite.

Terrorists care most about taking the fight to the enemy. If it causes mass casualties, great. If it’s a core infrastructure target that hurts the enemy, but doesn’t kill a whole lot, great.

He’s essentially right. If they can’t “get” government targets, they’ll switch to civilian targets. And when civilian targets in major cities are protected, they’ll go for the ones in more modest sized cities.

Look at Nidal Hasan. For perspective, his was a very small attack. However, by attacking army recruits, he achieved the objective of a spectacular, low casualty attack.

Roman vigiles used to be firefighter/night watchmen, but were firefighters first. The police role gets usurped by the cohortes urbanae, but neither force was trained in contemporary lines that would stand up in the field. Sure, the vigiles are organized in maniples and cohorts, but that’s not the same as saying they are trained in the same weaponry as their military counterparts.

Which vehicle are you thinking of? Buffalo? Caiman?

Before 2003 the only mine-resistant vehicles would have been the Military Police’s armored humvees and the military police’s ASV. That’s it. And back then, they were intended for MP’s and to be issued in small quantities for convoy security. We just didn’t anticipate everyone and their mother running into IEDs. Not sure how it’s Rummys fault.

Israel might need some MRAPs if they find themselves going into the West Bank.

Fire sale, come get ‘em while they’re shiny.

Maybe. We’ll see if the Army learned anything from the ongoing AC/RC food fight in the Air Force. My guess is there’s no desire within the Army to sustain a bunch of MRAPs, so where ever they go their readiness levels will probably suck.

Don’t need them. They’ve been rigging M113s since they got their hands on them, and the Namers need some combat proving anyway.

Where do you think the buffalo and cougar came from?? And the A stands for ambush — hard tops prevent the well-known attack from the canyon tops strategy employed by everyone in AFG

A portion of the the MRAP FOV population should be placed in the hands of the Logisitcs and Maintenance folks for use in their TOE. There has always been an inherent problem in the Army, during training and previous land combat operations, with maintainers being able to keep up with Mech Infantry and Armor.
The HMMWV, and the planned JLTV, is not a solution for maintainers who need technican transportability (without having to take four trucks for eight people). As well, the HMMWV never provided much room for maintainers and technicians to carry tooling and spare repair parts tactically to perform front line repairs when needed. While we have fought a “policemans” and infantrymans war the last decade, history tells us that when we go “too light to fight” we always end up in major land combat situation later on down the road. We’ve paid for the MRAP assets which have a variety of uses other than convoy support and “travelling safely” (contrary to popular belief) that can be employed and used for future operations.

What will really happen is we will sell these to your enemies for a low cost so that the next engagment we get into they will be using these against us along with any extra weapons and ammo.

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