Call Made to Congress for China War Plan

Call Made to Congress for China War Plan

The U.S. military needs a more focused war plan specific to China, especially after China’s recent declaration of an air defense zone over the East China Sea, a group of defense analysts told a prominent House subcommittee Wednesday.

As part of the Pentagon’s overall defense strategy to pivot to the Pacific, the U.S. should buy more Virginia-class attack submarines, prioritizing long-range anti-ship missiles, carrier-based drones, and missile defense technology, the analysts told the House Armed Services’ Seapower and Projection Forces Subcommittee.

Seth Cropsey, a senior fellow at The Hudson Institute, told the subcommittee that the U.S needs a detailed war plan for China in the event that conflict arises.


“Chinese leaders are ambitious and they are moving toward great power status. The U.S. is not taking this possibility as seriously as it should,” said

Much of the hearing was focused on how the U.S. can counter-balance Chinese strategic moves to deny access to certain areas in the region through the use of long-range missiles, guided missile destroyers and submarines. In particular, the analysts said China have sought to control waterways, choke points and restrict access to key islands and territories in the region.

China has already provoked tensions in the region by declaring an air-defense zone in the East China Sea. U.S. leaders flew two unarmed B-52s through the area shortly after the announcement. However, the White House has also asked civilian U.S. airliners to alert China when their aircraft fly through the zone.

“While Naval modernization is a natural development for any sea-faring nation such as China, it is clear the modernization is emboldening the Chinese government to exert their interests by bullying their neighbors and pushing back the United States in the Asia Pacific region,” said Rep. Randy Forbes, R-Va., chairman of the Seapower and Projection Forces Subcommittee.

If China succeeds in restricting access to or controlling its near seas, that would present “major implications for U.S. strategy and constitute a major challenge to the post World War II international order,” said Ronald O’Rourke, specialist in Naval Affairs, Congressional Research Service.

Chinese defense spending has increased from an estimated $45 to $60-billion annually in 2003 to $115 to $200 billion today, said Jim Thomas, vice president and director of studies, Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments.

This includes investments in ships, long-range missiles, fighter jets and submarines, he explained. Unlike the U.S. which maintains a global posture, the Chinese military can spend all of its funds on regional counter-intervention, Thomas said.

The Chinese military has as many as 100 land-based strike fighters equipped with sophisticated avionics, sensors and advanced air-to-air missiles, he testified. Thomas also mentioned China’s DF-21D long-range ballistic missile, a weapon with a maneuverable warhead able to attack large surface combatants at ranges up to 930 miles.

“A decade ago China was reliant upon Russian assistance in its armaments, but is now increasingly shifted toward indigenous design and production. It is rapidly building up a modernized submarine force and its advanced guided missile destroyers represent a major improvement in fleet air defenses,” he told the Subcommittee.

These defenses are designed to protect aircraft carriers and help China push its Naval perimeter further off the coast, Thomas added. China also has an armada of small, armed fast-attack craft which could make it difficult for foreign forces to approach to within 200 nautical miles of the Chinese coast, Thomas testified.

Being able to thwart or spoof command and control and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance networks needs to be a key part of a counter-China defense strategy, Thomas emphasized as well.

Andrew Erickson, associate professor at the U.S. Naval War College, testified that the U.S. should do more to deny China the ability to seize and hold off-shore territory. This includes  developing anti-ship cruise missiles such as the recently tested Long Range Anti-Ship Missile as well as long-range surface to air missiles, he said.

Erickson said offensive mine warfare could also provide key elements of the strategy. Most of all, however, Erickson emphasized that the U.S. should use its undersea technological advantage to deny China the ability to seize territory.

He stressed that the Navy should maintain its current pace of building two Virginia-class attack submarines, called SSNs, per year.

“It is therefore essential to ensure the present two-a-year construction rate of Virginia-class, nuclear-powered attack submarines. These SSNs are ideal for denying China the ability to hold and re-supply any forcefully seized islands. Given China’s ongoing limitations in anti-submarine warfare and the inherent difficulty of progressing in this field,  China could spend many times the cost of these SSNs and still not be able to counter them effectively,” Erickson.

Rourke also told the Subcommittee that the U.S. might want to consider acquiring three Virginia-class submarines per year, citing the importance of the platform.

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Previous SECDEF focus on irregular warfare has left us less prepared for this OAR. We need more and better bombers. LRS-B (and LRSO) can’t get here fast enough and we need more than 80–100. We also need fighters designed to give air dominance at very long ranges. We are not addressing this need and probably won’t until after 2030.. The attack aircraft need legs and payload like a F-15E or F-111 and modern survivability. What we are getting is the F-35 which can carry 2 JDAMS and needs refueling to get anywhere and is less survivable than the F-22 that came before it.

Now ask yourself, what are we building that won’t help us and what things are we neglecting that we will need? What will LCS bring to this? Will f-35B even be relevant? Do I have enough attack subs? Should I have more long range cruise missiles etc.

Ah yes the incessant and irrelevant bleating of the contractor shills for more money.

Of course nothing they are suggesting would mean a repeal of the Chinese ADIZ. As the old saying goes…
the powerful do as they wish and the weak do as they must.

What will the LCS bring? The only mine countermeasure capability in the fleet. Which is a huge threat from China. Meanwhile, China continue to develop (and practice deploying) not only anti-ship mines but anti-aircraft mine systems as well.

So long as it stays afloat.

Yeah nonsense. Sure, be always prepared for contingencies, but let’s face it, this war is going to stay as cold as ‘cold cuts’. Never is there going to be a ‘war’ between the US and China. At best some senseless proxy wars again, or a short maritime conflict. The 2 biggest economies going after each other? Are Americans prepared to see 100.000 coffins a month? Okay so it’s sensless, but it’s a good exercise to keep military planners and strategists occupied and their skills grown.

In a bit unrelated news, I’ve just read Kim Jong Un’s uncle has been executed. The one who was fired for corruption. Hate them or love them, they’re a strict bunch haha!

Never heard of antiaircraft mines. Any source? Did a quick search and could not find anything

http://www.usnwc.edu/Research—Gaming/China-Mari

Page 57. First paragraph, second to last line references what I’m referring to.

Certainly building more Virginia-class SSNs is a good idea. And while we’re at it, we should also build the extended versions of the Virginias (designed to carry lots of cruise missiles) that were recommended as replacements for the Ohio SSGNs that will have to be retired before too long.

The pacific should be turned into a gigantic American lake, and our allies (the S. Koreans, Japanese, etc.) should be encouraged to continue their own build-ups (as should the Indians). And, we should be more inclined to sell Taiwan whatever it needs if the Chinese continue to be diplomatically obnoxious.

LCS should be discontinued and replaced with something relatively survivable (an up-gunned/up-armored version of the NCS was offered). The GAO and USN’s own reports scorched the thing, and the navy has since failed to resolve the many problems to anybody’s satisfaction.

As sad as it is, Patrick Buchanan predicted China would start a huge military build-up (and increase their diplomatic belligerence), fed by the huge migration to China of the US manufacturing base, tens of thousands of dual use technologies (and hard-won manufacturing techniques) in his many editorials starting from 2002 through 2008. And subsequently, the US National Intelligence Estimates agreed in its report that this massive migration of the strategic industrial base was very bad indeed for our national security.

MUSPA mines. They’re a short range thing to hit aircraft close to the ground/surface. P8’s aren’t supposed to go low routinely like the P3s do, but in the right circumstances they could threaten an ASW helo.

People are crazy. There is no threat from China. Chinese technology is weak and old. Stop taking our tax money for your toys.

The RAND piece on land based anti ship missiles was interesting. We already are converting the JASSM to an anti ship role. A anti ship short range ballistic option should be pretty easy with ATACMs. Both would be less than 500km which is more than enough and still be within INI treaty limits. The air launched version and the notion of a single B1 carrying 22 of them is a great capability.

I like hearing more subs. I’m not anti carrier but if we went from 11 CSGs to 9 that basically pays for SSBNx and an extra VA class a year.

I think the high EM testing they did on the X47 portends some sort of non kinetic attack option probably related to the CHAMPS test.

We were selling steel, aircraft parts, and aviation fuel to Japan as late as 1940. You’re faith in business= peace is not supported by history.

As Gen. MacArthur(a real General) observed, the only justification of war is total VICTORY. Anything else is simply treason. To ask young people to die in corporate messes without a clear purpose? Insanity. Gen. MacArthur had a ten day plan to handle Communist China in Korea. The UN and the global banking community nixed it and had Truman fire him. Too bad really and too bad Wild Bill Donovan had Gen. Patton killed too. I’m afraid the days of real wars are over.(too bad) and all this talk is simply defense contractors salivating on the trillions they can make on useless weapons which will merely end up on a junk pile in Arizona or sunk as a coral reef.
A real war with Communist China would mean billions of dead people which is a major problem for some minds. We did have our moment though and I wonder how things would be today if Gen. MacArthur had his way.

This is getting off topic, but P8’s also have to come down. Reasons are; If they launch sonobuoys at altitude they’ll take to long to reach the water (first contact is perishable intel) and the magnetometers can’t detect at altitude. You can launch the Mk54 at height and track (once your bouys are in), but search & detect still needs be done near the water (for now). The advantage to the P-8’s altitude at the moment is really only from a transit and loitering capability. Once on the hunt it’s vulnerable. Additionally these mines threaten the very mine countermeasure helos that are intended to detect them.

Back in the 1960’s there was a folk song titled “Wasn’t That A Time” the refrain of that song was “The wars are long the peace is frail the mad men come again.” http://​www​.youtube​.com/​r​e​s​u​l​t​s​?​s​e​a​r​c​h​_​q​u​e​r​y​=​w​asn%

Who didn’t see this coming? Just start nuking random Countries and get it over with. My MRE’s are getting old.

Forget about all the adults toy, real war today will involve nuclear bombs which are aplenty on both side. What is the use of another submarine in the face of a nuclear war.

What a bunch of warmongering morons in here. That said, we likely will go to war with China someday, for the simple reason we can never, ever, repay the debt we owe them. And we will lose! China is far more developed, than most people realize. And China is the only country on the planet, that can lose 300 million people, and have 300 million left!

How about trade less with China.

Oh yea great idea, lets just keep posting up what we will do if we go to war with china. They will never read these columns about us shifting over to the Pacific let alone our strategy! I feel so safe with these ill minded fools running our country…

Japan doesn’t own any treasury bonds in 1940 and its basically a small country we can win.

Japan was cut off by the US from ALL oil of the world, surely they would attack, wouldn’t you? And the British cut them off from all industrial exports, basically what the British and French did to the Germans in Europe. Sure, keep a big cat in a corner and he will scratch/bite you. China isn’t in any corner, it floods Western markets with everything from Tshirts to iPhones. Different situation.

MacArthur, while much accomplished in WW2 was a bat crazy insane looney tune idiot. Nuking China? Really? Yeah, goes to show his military tunnel vision. Guess what, he is BELOW civlian comanders, and he has to make due with what they give him. He hasn’t ANY policy setting powers and should have kept his big mouth SHUT and allow civilians to decide. The US wasn’t a military dictatorship Junta was it? So good that he was fired. Idiotic man.

Some generals let power get to their head. They have to understand their task is TACTICS within boundries set by normal civilians. He thought he was god. So he was proven wrong. End of that. And of his glorification. Patton also to some extent. Though during ww2, they were GREAT and briliant tacticians, on par with even the German generals and fieldmarshalls.

Bottom line is military contractors along with some politicians and military command have shown tendencies to over-inflate threats for their own self interests.

It posit that this is not out of dishonesty, but a desire for a rationale to justify the tremendous costs of the U.S. military operations.

Iraq and Afghanistan have shown that conventional warfare is not effective in maintaining sustainable U.S. interests abroad .

The threat of China to the U.S. mainland is near zero, and the thought of U.S. treasure and blood defending Japan’s WWII dubious claim to some uninhabited islands does not appeal to me or a good return on investment on America’s precious resources.

Keep it in context, Concerned. The U.S. petro sanctions were in response to the Empire’s prolonged pernicious exploits in mainland Asia. Ask the Chinese or the Koreans how they felt about the Japanese getting all the oil they needed.

we should hit them now instead of later. the pla is out of it’s mind, taking bits and pieces of the south china sea. we should rename the Sea to the “RED SEA” for all the blood that is about to be let.

…and here we agree. MacArthur didn’t seem to think anyone was worthy of outranking him.
Just the same, I don’t think feeding an obvious troll like Karl is a good idea.

I’m for it. Step one will probably be convincing Western workers to take a huge wage cut, though.

we would not have this problem or the Korean war if MacArthur was allowed to finish the problem.

The Continuous War continues…

MacArthur thought the same thing.

I agree this shows we keep spending money for wasteful Army programs we don’t need and need more for the Navy. I think Navy Drones is full of crap we don’t need those but manned planes new subs and ships yes we need. Overall we need a Nuclear deterrent rebuilt against China it worked in containing the Soviet Union it can work against the Chicoms.

“They can afford to lose an LST [landing ship] as they have about 27 of them, but they are also usually armed with one or more twin 37 millimeter cannons, which at close range could heavily damage a lightly armored U.S. Navy destroyer,” Rick Fisher, a senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center, told the Beacon. — http://​www​.theblaze​.com/​s​t​o​r​i​e​s​/​2​0​1​3​/​1​2​/​1​3​/​a​-​u-s–

Isn’t it great to have a Navy full of ships that can be sunk with guns that would have been used as anti-aircraft weapons in WW2. Our Navy’s motto: sure you can buy better, but you just can’t pay more!

The Chinese and the Russians decided to increase their Defense Spending after Bush’s Cowboy Invasion of Iraq in 2003. They knew then, that an American president could decide to start a War based on flimsy evidence and outright lies. Could the US blunder into more senseless Wars??? — Absolutely, as long as We keep Electing
Warmongers like John McCain and LInsey Graham.

True. But that was not the US’s problem, Manchurians etc getting the short end of the Japanese stick. But indeed, Japan did deserve blame in it’s Imperial ambitions. But Pearl Harbor wasn’t ‘out of the blue’ while it was dispicable. Many historians and geopolitical experts call the US’s oil embargo a declaration of war.

Yeah, prevent a tiny war by waging a war that would have made the German Soviet war look like peanuts. How many peanuts do you have in your skull?

Lindsey Gayham needs to be retired. Forcefully. McCain is senile, but he has had his respectable and commendable service. Him I can’t fault. But his current political actions are disgusting nonetheless, but he was a brave man and a combat veteran, so those kudos I will give him. Gayham should be in the food stamp line at the END of the line.

China stopped buying US debt almost 3 years ago, and has been lowering its exposure gradually while hording huge amounts of gold.… The biggest holder of US debt is the US… its like taking your left hand and shaking it with your right hand lol…

Tell that to the 46 dead from the ROKS Cheonan. Conventional warfare requires the most long term planning and preparedness while the unconventional/irregular takes the most toll when you’re in it. China (and all other interested parties in this case) is a nation state with centralized government. That would most certainly lead to conventional warfare. While I tend to agree that a direct conflict is unlikely, I find it very plausible for us to see a proxy war a la Vietnam in North Korea. This would also require conventional warfare.

It didn’t work to contain the Soviets! It lead to the biggest arms race in history. As for the drones you clearly aren’t well versed in their capabilities. They fly longer, better, and for a lot less money. The only problem is we don’t trust them enough to let them do our dirty deeds.

Folks with no understanding of naval vessel design say things like this. There’s 3 ways to sink a ship; a fire (from a bomb or missile that ignites an accelerant like an ord mag or fuel tank), a massive hole in the side at or just below the waterline (missile), or you break the keel (torpedo). That’s why when you read about SINKEX’s the ships often times take literally hundreds of rounds from 5-inch guns and stay afloat. If a ship doesn’t take on water it doesn’t lose buoyancy and therefore stays afloat.

This time we built our own enemy by bleeding our own nation of it’s industrial might and good paying jobs.

You’d think with all the money these defense contractors make, they could afford a schill that could read.

Neither of them is worth a damn. If you look at their voting records they are nothing but clones separated by a few decades.

Ever hear of a tariff? You know, that’s the way the US federal government was primarily funded for 150 years while this nation went from being nothing but trees to having more industrial might than the rest of the world combined. It’s a sales tax on foreign produced goods. Tariffs being the reason why US workers have traditionally made 8 times more than their counterparts in China. Well, it was tariffs and the fact that US workers are inherently worth 8 times more, but that’s too hard for contemporary businesses to account for on their little spreadsheets.

Europe wouldn’t be a socialist cesspool right now If Patton had been allowed to do what should have been done too.

Hmm, I wonder what they called it when we bombed the crap out of Tokyo then…

Damn straight. We spend all our time focused on these little 3rd world crap holes and forgot how to be a real world power. The first thing we need to do, though, is to stop paying these damn defense contractors more to screw us and start buying weapons the way we did during the Cold War. Hell, we by ships by ones and twos, and airplanes by the tens and twentys.

Given the sate of our depleted manufacturing capacity, perhaps a “pre-conflict” order of Uniforms, Boots, Ammo might be in order!??

Yeah, except this one won’t be continuous.

Shouldn’t you be more concerned about being able to purchase anything with electronics involved?

Patton was furious at the way German soldiers and civilians were mistreated after the end of hostilities. He said that the Germans were the only decent people in Europe. He also stated that the Jews would have us in another war within 5 years (Korea). I agree that Patton was murdered. He was extremely popular with the American people and would have exercised a great deal of political power had he been permitted to return to the US. Patton’s dislike for the Jews was well known, and someone of his popularity could have helped to prevent the Jews from invading and occupying Palestine and murdering hundreds of thousands of Palestinians while stealing their land. He had to die, just as JFK had to die for preventing ben Gurion from obtaining nuclear weapons.

“…irrelevant bleating of the contractor shills for more money.”

‘bleating’.… are you seriously using that word and expecting to be taken seriously?

You’re not getting the point, business was occurring almost right up the commitment of combat, surely the planning was in motion for Pearl Harbor while there was still commerce occurring and we went to war.

I absolutely agree a war in the western Pacific would be catastrophic to the global economy. I just don’t see the Chinese actions trying to avoid that clear outcome, quite the opposite. They squander opportunities to paint themselves in a very positive light, like responding to the Fukushima disaster or the recent typhoon in the Philippines, while simultaneously engaging in this escalatory brinksmanship that only leads to miscalculations and the potential conflict that we seem to agree would be catastrophic.

Bullying countries locally isn’t going to work, it never has long term, for anyone, I don’t care how allegedly ‘long viewed’ the Chinese are. These idiots in Beijing are not the descendants of Sung Tzu or Confucius.

China holds approx. 1.32 trillion of U.S. “T-Bills” of approx 17 trillion+ USD of US “National Debt” Pure Na is spot on!, the US Federal Reserve is the largest holder of US “debt”. Basically Jack Lew says we need X amount of $$, prints a T-bill, delivers it to Chairman Bernake & away go the printing pressess printing “cloth” USD’s 24/7!!!

just a coincidence that Rep. Randy Forbes, R-Va represents the area of the nation that POTUS E warned us about.…..the southern half of Hampton Roads.……

“Chinese technology is weak and old”… you really don’t keep up with current events, do you? LOL

If u exclude India.….

I’m not sure China wants a proxy war in Korea. Given the eventual beating the NKs would take (granted, after their initial gains, a la Jun-Aug 1950, since they’ll no doubt be the aggressors), I don’t think the Chinese want to have to bail them out financially, logistically, and most likely not with troops, not to mention the problem they’d have to face with NK refugees crossing the Yalu — something they have to deal with today, albeit on a smaller scale, given the poor state of affairs in the PDRK. I will stipulate, however, that China also doesn’t want to see a reunification of Korea under Seoul and see a US ally along their border; accordingly, I think they’ll continue to support the status quo and work quietly behind the scenes to keep their client from going too “full goose bozo” whenever it’s in their interests. And if the shooting does start again on the peninsula, you’ll find UW a key component of the fight — remember that the NKs reportedly have a large SOF component (a 2010 study estimated they number @ 180,000).

And especially concerned about WHERE those electronics come from… .

Right on! CE: “Operation Chromite”, which pretty much waxed 3/4 of the NORK Army, surely the work of as u say: ” a Idiotic man”. If POTUS Truman had really sized up the situation & we went for 6 months of “TOTAL WAR”, with the PRC.…..instead of his (POTUS Trumans’) limited ROE’s, things certainly would have turned out more advantageous for the US & UN forces in theatre. Not absolutely requiring nukes, but lets just say just every air-worthy B-29, 6–7 carrier’s & an increased UN air power contribution based in Japan, establish & maintain air superioity, no “MiG Ally”, heck, even supplemented with retained 250K+ battle hardened Japanese soldiers!…wow a different outcome 4 sure!!! General MacArthur certainly was a complex man, with many faults & POTUS Truman…his personality & Presidency speak 4 themselves, coulda, shoulda, woulda.…..I think GEN . MacArthurs’ most famous quote was ““The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war.”..IMHO, One of Americas’ greatest combat commanders!

If they keep cutting our veterans benefits. There won’t be anyone there to fight. A COLA decease for all military retirees until they are 62 years of age. Bring it on! Dear Lord, please bring back the draft! ASAP!

I guess that you are the guy that wants us to fight with sticks and swords and bows and arrows.

All of this talk about building more subs, et al is getting totally inane. Do you realize how long it take to build all of this military equipment, and then field test it before it is put into service? It takes three, four, or five years, or more. This is not an Iphone or television, or even a car that we are producing here. You can say all you want about what you want, but time is not on your side to put it there.

Don’t you mean over 700 million left?

We have got to cut defense spending and focus on domestic issues such as homelessness, poverty and excessive sentencing and incarceration, especially for those ‘in trouble’ for drug offenses.

The VA class is already under production at 2 boats a year, scaling up to 3 isn’t a big deal.

http://​breakingdefense​.com/​2​0​1​2​/​1​0​/​n​a​v​y​s​-​p​-​8​-​sub–

P8s intend to stay up high.

The Chinese are wonderful people. But, they are assertive and plan carefully. Yes, plan to go toe-to-toe with them from this time forward. That is the only way to avoid global mishap.

First of all Gen. Mac was a nut and he was an old soldier with his military thinking. Yes, Bush did start a war but then again what President does’t lie. Yes, China does have six hundred million people they can lose but do we? Never count the ChiComs. out as they have been on Earth for what five thousand years and the Brits have outhouses older then our nation. Bring back the draft? Gen. Hershey just turned over in his grave at Arlington.

Basically, in about 10/15 years, China WILL be the top dog in entire Asia, and won’t allow US ships in it’s waters. It’s waters means what China considers to be it’s waters. So the plateau will shift to the middle east/near asia again, where neither party has a legitimate claim and neither has to back down. Mark my words, the US fleet won’t be around much longer if China says it can’t. Just like the Chinese fleet wouldn’t be tolerated off the coast of San Diego. All this posturing. China in a few years can crank out aircraft carriers daily, they HAVE a shipbuilding industry.

We love what we are. Socialist alledgedly. We have money, we live longer lives, happier lives and are TALLER (basic sign of wealth and health). We have a much bigger industrial GDP. Don’t make me into an anti american, but you have MUCH to learn. And the Us are showing baby steps in the right direction like the Obamacare thing. And don’t confuse Greeks with REAL Europeans like the Dutch/Germans/Scandinavians etc. So if you want to bash Greece, please join me, but that’s like me bashing Mississippi, highly UNrepresentative of the entire US.

I can’t really agree friend. What you’re arguing is pretty much the annihilation of the Chinese people, which would have made the Holocaust look like a practice run. It would have made the USA into a much bigger bad guy than Nazi Germany ever was. And you wouldn’t have EVER won: do you think China is easily beaten with it’s 500 million brain washed peasants? You guys couldn’t even kill a few million Chinese soldiers. And what about the Soviet Union? Would they have sat idly by? And European UN powers would have never gone along with it.

So basically, this dedante was the only possible outcome for both parties to save face. A dmz in the middle of the country. No other possibility was there. Because of facts on the ground. China isn’t surpressible, it has always been a superpower except for about 2–3 centuries during British rain. The only thing one can do against China is invest in it’s own population to compete. Containing it is impossible, just like the British could never contain the USA in the late 1800’s early 1900’s, even though Britain had the biggest navy.

Now you’re just being melodramatic and silly. Anyone can park subs off anyone’s coast, we’ve never stopped anyone from doing that. No one is cranking out aircraft carriers one a day, not even the evil Chinese Empire, that’s such a silly comment, and you actually want to be taken seriously?

The definition of “troll” is someone who thinks differently that we do, and therefore should not be paid attention to — is that right?

ST: excellent observation of the fact that their appears to be a strong rift within China itself.….its recent blundering over those uninhabited islands a perfect ex. “President” Xi Jinping IMHO still has not consoledated power within his own nation with respect to the PLA & the “Provincial Chiefs”, hence this disjointed often bizarre behavoir on the world stage. That coupled with what appears to be economic struggles at provincial level, forcing the expenditure of huge amounts of capital for “infrastructure” (to create jobs, to tamp down unrest???) & down-graded economic growth forecasts project a nation that on the “surface” appears united, strong, ready to exert its new found military power. What lurks beneath the surface is the $64K question. The recent NORK execution of the #2 man could be a example of the struggle for power in China as well, one the west never see’s!

no, just kick’em out of Korea right up to the Yalu River, & push another 100–150 miles into Manchuria. U make China in the early 50’s to be some super power.…it was hardly even a united country, (The cultral revolution was needed for that) China was weak & impoverished from 15+ years of war/occupation w/Japan all the while fighting a civil war amongest itself. As a previous poster said” “total war” blockade their ports, bomb staging areas & garrisons of troops in Manchuria (only half of which had a weapon, the USSR would have supplied them 4 how long, 3 months, 6 months, They were more concerned with consoledating their newly found European gains thanks to Churchhills double cross of the US vs a vs Eastern Europe, which Stalin renegged on!! anyhow! they couldn’t have supplied them 4 any length of time ) then let the displaced ‘Nationalists invade north from indo-China & amphib from Taiwan…6mnths to a year & the country probably wouldn’t be able to even feed its own people. plain & simple POTUS Truman blew it, what would have the USSR done nuke NYC? & risk being wiped out themselves 4 the Chinese…who were basically a enemy of enemy therefore a friend.… Stalin never trusted Mao & vise versa! goed debat, ook al zijn we het niet eens zijn? Denk je niet nederlander denkt?

Its estimated 1/4 of their population is in some form of a labor camp or military controlled industrial/rural operation. They do have a huge supposed SF contingent, but as with the hermit kingdom, I view anything from the north with well a grain of salt. IMHO their are & always have been a puppet of China, to be used as a buffer againts Japan & the ROK & US forces there!

Great idea Gary..I’m all 4 it.…just make sure your daughter signs up & gets her draft card too! there are only 4 “series” of MOS’s in the Army barred 4 females. When POTUS Obama & his cabal of idealogues have their way, the bar will be dropped. Then the Military Selective Service Act will need to be amended to draft women.…remember all those “Change” posters in the second term race.….well its right around the corner…by 2015 infantry slots will be “reviewed” for assignment of females! get a ltr from a insurance co. yet?…LOL!

I thought bullying is the expertise of the America, especially bullying many weak and small countries.….?

Go and study history. List down all the wars that initiated by America and China, compare them in terms of reason of starting a war.….….

Ultimately you find that America is no. 1 bully in the world.

I thought bullying is the expertise of the America, especially bullying many weak and small countries.….?

Go and study history. List down all the wars that initiated by America and China, compare them in terms of reason of starting a war.….….

Ultimately you find that America is no. 1 bully in the world.

Wow, I cannot believe you just said that, what country are you from? You obviously dont know what your talking about, my advice to you is read more academic reports or at least open your eye’s to the big picture. Unlike the U.S. that feels comptable in iitss blind position right now , China is developing more sophisticated weaponry and power projection is the result of it. U.S. Pacific allies are the one’ s they are testing to piss off right now , indirectly affecting the U.S.. The game that China is playing is not for a short term they are in it for the long haul, as there technological advancement evolves, tactics and force builds up they will eventually pose a greater threat to what you so called freedom. So set back relax and enjoy while it last and keep looking the other way.

China is so far behind us technologically that they just managed to land a rover on the surface of the Moon at the same time our space program is so f’ed up they can’t even launch an asstronaut into orbit without buying a ride from Russia on an ex-Soviet Union designed rocket. What is China’s rover looking for? “The rover will spend about three months exploring the moon’s surface and looking for natural resources.” In contrast, our space program has become all about funneling money to a select few aerospace contractors. It’s a great day to be an American.

Look what the Vietcong did to us and we were more militarily advanced. The Vietcong and their allies ” The Left” we’re will to win at all cost with human lives,.….Never assume anything.…..

Is that why we buy our military spare parts from them?

Eastern Europe was given away by the treaty of Yalta, because they wanted Stalin to declare war against Japan as soon as Germany was defeated. And this they did. The big problem with Stalin was that his 5 year plans, took 20 years to complete. And he never trusted anyone, even his own family. This is why he had so many purges. Truman was so afraid of him, that he dropped the A-bombs on Japan to get them to surrender sooner, before Stalin could get his troops onto Japanese soil and want control of part of the country after the war.

So they can get out faster and get back to their drugs, right?

What happened to all of our auto plants when WWII broke out? They turned over to total war production. Hasn’t anyone noticed how many auto brands the Chinese have bought in the last few years? and the number of auto plants that they have opened to produce those cars there? They are just following OUR PLAYBOOK from before WWII. When they go to war, they will just turn those plants over to war manufacturing. They have the plants all over the country, so it would be hard to knock them out. Get real people, they manufacture our military spare parts so they can get our technology, and give us garbage parts. We are being set up, and no one wants to believe it.

What are we going to do, borrow the money from the Chinese to have a war with them?

“a group of defense analysts told a prominent House subcommittee Wednesday.”

Really? Who are these defense analysts?

“Chinese leaders are ambitious and they are moving toward great power status. The U.S. is not taking this possibility as seriously as it should,” said

Said who? Way to leave us guessing.

I hate china

Not stopping the Most Favored Nation status after the Tiananmen Square Massacre always struck me as a missed opportunity to connect trade to human rights.

Actually the boost to China’s military spending started in the 1990s, when they also got a lot of tech sold to them by the USA. (Loral selling the multiple guidance technology they needed for MIRV warheads comes to mind.) Also it was fuelled by their trade boom and profits. Russia’s is similar, a product of both having Putin in charge plus the oil price boom which has fuelled Russian defense budgets. If anything they would both be pushing regardless, as when Russia hit Georgia a few years back and China which has been pressing her neighbors at sea since the 1970s at the very least when they shot up some Vietnamese ships, and the 1950s-60s conflicts with Taiwan. The US was actually stern on supporting Taiwan with Clinton, who sailed Carriers into the Taiwan Strait in the 1990s, as well as with Reagan. It isn’t “US Coyboy ism” which is why Russia and China are moving, it is the governments they have, the resources they have, that they feel that they can and that they want to. Add to that the post “Syria Red Line” uncertainty about the US having much will to stand on anything.

…and where will they get the money to do this if they aren’t selling us anything? The Chinese have as much interest in peace as we do. Smart heads can prevent fighting by remembering this.

Shoot split the difference and sell military stuff to our regional allies. This will restore the balance and get money coming in to us. F-16s to Taiwan is a good start, then something to the Philippines, and maybe Japan (F-22J?)

Not literally, figuratively. Don’t you see that when China’s economy has matured, they have a much deeper breath? They aren’t the Soviet Union, a collection of 200 million poor people with a huge military that you could outspend. China will have 1 billion + WEALTHY people, that’s an ENDLESS tax base. And the beauty? No PRIVATE contractors that skim off tax YUANS. They can build things much sooner and more cost effective than we in the West. They have TWO stealth aircraft in development, or was it even 3? (I’m not sure of how good they are, but still it’s a BIG leap over just a few years ago). They graduate MILLIONS of engineerins yearly, at least 1 million. That goes a LONG way in making up for their silly communist past. Yes, if they want, they will get it. And not even the US can do anything about it. And let’s face it, it’s the circle of geopolitical life. They have all the makings of a hyperpower. I don’t like it, but kudos to them for managing it correctly.

Let’s call it China’s Monroe Doctrine, or would that be Monloe Doctline (bad sense of humour). In the end, it’s the BIG guy who calls the shots, at least in his own neighbourhood. You think the rest in Asia doesn’t view the US as the ‘bully’? Sure. You think 3/4 of your own Monroe South America didn’t hate your guts? Because United Fruit needed some profit margins you overthrew 10 governments there. But that’s basic geopolitics. The big guy dictates what happens, even if sometimes he puts up a farce ‘mutual understanding’. It’s what happened from day 1 since people organized into governments and nation states. And it’s what China’s doing. I don’t LIKE it, but it’s just a continuation of how things have always been. It won’t ever change probably, untill we get an integrated world government by cooperating. Until then, it’s me me me.

I don’t know about the jew/JFK thing, never heard of it. I’m sure the US government killed him, but probably for many other reasons. Too much ‘change’ in too short a period. Anyway, Patton indeed was anti Jewish, as were MANY in the US government, and many in Europe. It’s a historical thing. I don’t like anti– any group of people, but then again I AM anti zionist (not anti jew).
Patton was a respected man and he fought hard. But like any hardliner, he was a bit crazy too, and even suggested the second after ww2 to go all the way to Moscow. So you had 2 crazy generals, Patton in the West, MacArthur in the East. That’s why we never let generals make policy decisions. They should fight, and take orders just like the law stipulates. Otherwise it’s a mutany.

Zeker een goed debat, mijn Amerikaanse vriend:)

But really, China didn’t need ‘unification’ (war with a foreign power is usually the number 1 unifier, propaganda tool). Aside from that, they just needed another 3–4 million peasants armed with AKs, because the US could hardly handle the first 2 (no bashing, but it’s reality) Why do you think MacArthur wanted to nuke them? It’s just too much human waves to handle. The problem was the US could hardly keep the 38th DMZ line intact, let alone push into China. It wasn’t Manchuria anymore, in 1949 the battle was over and it was China, unified under communist horror government. I think what actually happened was the best stalemate they could agree to. I don’t think the US population could be pushed into another all out total war, just 7 years after ww2. That was the one and only total war the US will have ever fought in. It just doesn’t make sense. And it was the last for us Europeans also.

Yes, China’s huge military and government need to read these forums to figure out what the US military posture is? Such childish posts make me cringe for mankind. Do you really think THIS is how governments get their information about other governments? By trolling people who don’t decide those things? Anyway, we hear all about the all seeing NSA etc, think of it for one second, China’s INTERNET population (that is, people who have internet) is TWICE the entire US population and growing. So in the end, who will have the best hackers and in the biggest numbers? Indeed, we’re just starting to grasp what kind of huge giant China is.

Yes, it did lead to the biggest arms race but at the same time, it did serve its purpose. It Deterred all out nuclear war.

The USN currently only has 10 CSG’s, not 11. 10 is not enough with current demands, regular maintenance, etc. I’m a dumb infantry guy and I know that.

So what if they have that many people. You know why? The world’s largest ocean is between them and the US. China doesn’t have a blue water navy yet.

How about all the Americans of Chinese ancestry. Do you have a clue how many of them are in America. People talking of war with the Chinese are idiots.

There is not a problem with the U.S. going to war with China, the trade between the two and economics that has allowed American and other foreign markets to emerge in China will be the guidance. There are some who want a cold war to exist in China and America— this is a time for cool minds to govern.

And yet we keep stocking our Walmart shelves with Chinese crap. This is madness folks. A total lie. If they were such a threat we wouldn’t and shouldn’t be buying from them. Everyone realizes if we did go to war we can’t even cloth our peope. No factories left! Wake up America. BRING IT HOME TO THE USA. Remember that walmart slogan?!

Americans hadn’t the guts to punish a third-world dictator like Assad. I doubt they will be ready to wage war with CHINA.

“If China succeeds in restricting access to or controlling its near seas“
I wonder if this idiot author realizes that by making statements like this, he leads others to believe they are, in fact, true, which gives credence and precedent to China that these areas are, in fact, theirs when in reality, the territory is disputed. This is like the constant lie that Palestinians are their own culture/people and Isreal needs to give their lands back (when in fact and truth, “Palestinians” didn’t exist until AFTER Israel took BACK lands that its surrounding enemies stole from it– in fact Arab leaders in 1933 even called Palestine a fictional notion imagined by the Zionists)

It is if you use your increased SSGN capacity to replace the CSGs.

I don’t agree w/ your quote…but in L. Harts book on WW II there was a chapter on a “secret” deal betix Stalin & Churchill, (not even POTUS Roosvelt knew) Stalin promised PM Churchill that Britain would play a part in the formulation of the gov’ts of Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia & Czechoslavia. That would have given Britain a hand in eastern european affairs, as well as a foothold on the Black Sea. It was scibbled on a piece of paper while they were both talking & both agreed & shook hands on it. PM Churchill owned up to it to POTUS Roosvelt, but when Stalin reneged, he called it, something like his “scribble of shame”…or such. As far a POTUS Truman, he didn’t TRUST Stalin, as far as fearing him for geez sakes we fed the USSR army with cans of spam & supplied 1K’s of trucks which gave their army a HUGE advantage when it came to log. shipments to the front lines from the SPOE’s in Murmansk, The Black Sea ports, etc.…. MacArthur kept the Soviets out of Japan, though they did invade & still occupy the Kurile Island chain, which Japan still contest’s! We could have developed at least 3–5 A-bombs by the end of ’45.… the USSR would not have survived that type of devastation. But alas..coulda, woulda shoulda on POTUS Truman’s part!

well my dutch friend thats your opine & I certainly don’t agree that China was “unified” in 51–52…but we can agree to disagree…

ST: .…He’s tryin his best.…LOL!!!!!!! He needs to learn alot about China, its internal workings & Military…he’s European & a Dutchman @ that.…LOL!. For what its worth their SF’s fought along with the U.S. in Irag & the A-stan with distinction & help patrol the Gulf of Tears againts Somalian pirates 2 protect int’l shipping. That’s a whole lot for a country that size, considering some of the “slug” nations in NATO

Too late, since a few years back, when an American company builds factory in China, Chinese government buils an exact copy so even if they closed the US factory, they’ll still have the capabilities to build–copy!

At this point a war between the U.S. and China is invetable. First off i suggest is learn about the actual political landscape in china. They have a slowing economy due to them being undercut by African and South American Nations. The Early adult unemployment rate at about 23% with about twice as many men then there are women. So lets just use arbitry numbers, That means there is about 300 million young males without work and without a family. Not only that but there economy is completely tied to the US economy being if we fail so do they and News Flash the US economy is going to fail. So whats going to happen when that happens. China is left with two options either face a revolt at home or go to war with someone to kill off their excess population. Which any regional war will quickly escalate due to the fact that the US will become involed. Throw in the kicker that China wishes to surplant the US as the worlds sole economic superpower. Means not only will they have to build their own blue water navy but also to elimanate ours

There already was a war between the US and China; Korea 1950–1953. The “proxy” North Koreans do not consider it over. There is no reason to assume there can’t be another. And what does the size of the economies matter? That has never stopped anyone going to war before.
And if there is a war, the U.S. isn’t the one who will see 100,000 coffins a month, unless we continue to allow the military to atrophy.

Your words jumped out at me and the most common sense I’ve heard in a long time. And I’m an AF Intel officer. What’s your top five books you recommend reading?

Thank you for your service,
Kerby Young

Your comments sound more like that from one who has had heir head in the sand far too long. You also remind me of those who never act, but think only of a reaction.….Which in today’s world can spell death and destruction of America. It is very obvious that we have accumulated far too many thinkers as such, which does not bode well for American support in time of need.

They might sink our 1st one, as we test their resolve. But, IAW current USN Tactics, they’ll quickly be sunk from Over-The-Horizon (OHTT) by our anti-ship Harpoon’s armed with conventional warheads … 600 kilos of HE, if memory serves.

Micha_El.

Just remember that the ChiComs are the ones that killed our warriors in Korea (Battle deaths: 33,652) and Vietnam (58,220); to say nothing of their Human Rights violation and spying activity or their huge “cleansing” activates under ChiCom Mao. Make no mistake, they hate the west and seek to take over the far east. I say, arm Japan with Nukes and sail the US naval fleet into that so-called new air defense zone in perpetuity.

Chi-com just issued the order to the 7th Fleet to get out of all Asia water and air space…and what is our response???
Repeal Obamacare…

China is not the enemy, nor Russia. It’s Lockheed martin, Boeing, and the other creeps that want to sell
military junk to the U.S. government at ridiculous prices. They could care less if the poor American’s
have to defend the country with their lives . Good case in point, Romney and his Children (boys) who
didn’t shed much blood during the Vietnam (Mitt Romney) and his sons during the last ten years. I wouldn’t spend one plug nickel on new military equipment until such time as we have completely rebullt our infrastructure, have medical care for all our citizens and completely revitalize our education system so that young men and women can go to college at affordable prices.

I don’t bash Mississippi, I don’t know why you would Greece. You kind of strike me as an elitist snob and a prejudice racist honestly.

I hate our federal government officials more. After all, they’re the best elected government China’s money could buy.

And still have over a BILLION left (2013 pop. 1,384,694,199).

One of the few sensible things that’s been said on this thread. Congrats on your moral courage…

Oh, please…stop with the draft whining! Never happen…

Submarines are one of the few survivable Stealth weapons that can get in close and hit hard fast and just about instantly. Even the Stealth aircraft that are based in at Wheeler, Anderson, Deigo Garcia, along with B1s, B52s, and the royal air force platforms in the Indian ocean cant hit to fast from their launch points. ICBMs from the US would give to much for warning if we had to hit their ICBM launch sites. The object of this game would be to knock out their launch capability fast with very little warning that we are there

People who get paid quite well to hype threats and scare the gullible.

It would not be a war to take out people, it would be a war to surgically take out the war fighting capability of a nation, we should not try for population centers unless there is a military target there.

How about putting a tariff on any goods that were produced in the USA and then moved to a potential enemy just to shaft American workers.

Need to remove your head from your Fourth Point of Contact. Your uninformed obsession with this “ChiCom” thing blinds you to the reality of the two conflicts you mentioned. Pull your head out, wipe the mud from your eyes, open a book or two, and READ. Until then, you shouldn’t make unsubstantiated comments as if what you invent is as legitimate as what actually happened.

Three Nucs being set off over their eastern seaboard would just about take down their entire infrastructure, it would take them years to replace all the ruined electronics, about 75000ft high would do it, cars stopping on roads, computers and their drives wasted. any CNC machinery down. Communications dead, (no cell) it would be stone age time.

We also thought that the Japan was only populated by weak eyed, small statured, non able to fight.

How much more money does the taxpayer need to pay for the “social programs”? I do not remember the exact amount that has been spent for these programs since emperor obastard came to power, that amount is 500 billion a year. Look at the great social state of California. TRillions in debt. What is wrong with putting these people to work and let them earn that money? Yes, many folks have fallen on hard times and need help. Lets help, Section 8 housing, women (girls) reproducing as often as possible. Look t the out flow of money. No wonder people who really need help can get it. Defense spending is not the big piece of pie. Let us look at WW 1. It started 1914 and we entered in 1917 and ended 1918. Our military was not what it should have been. One on one with Germany, we would be speaking German. WW 2 started officially 1939. Germany started conflicts in 1934. They where brutal. Before all the archives disappear, see what Japan did to China and Germany to Poland (and others). The Japanese slaughtered the Chinese from 1937 to 1945. At that time we where a nation of pacifist. We were still using bi-planes flown off wooden decks of carriers. Again, if it were not for France getting their butts kicked badly and the tenacity of the British to fight to the last man we would be speaking German. I admire and respect the British. However, they have succumbed to the socialist and not the country the where once. This is happening here. I agree that hard time for possession of recreational pot is very dumb. This results again in the taxpayer supporting the commercialized prison system (real big money) to incarcerate these people. If they were not a criminal when they went in, chances are they will be when they get out adding again to the taxpayers burden. People need to stand on their own two feet and think for themselves and not what they perceive as free stuff and the crap they are told. So, do not cry on my shoulder about these poor drug offenders. I had family that would steal you blind to support their way of life and did not care if they went to prison. They where professional criminals and when they could prey on family with no remorse. These people are of no use to society and should be confined forever. I will help anyone, until they do wrong. I have two rules: Do not lie to me and Do not steal from me.. Ask me, if I can I will give you what you need or find a way to help. Poverty follows the lack of education. If your language is a slur of ebonics, who will hire you. Poverty, folks, do not go there. I know firsthand what it is. The homeless, some of them do very well for themselves. Some, like being that way and I admit very very few. Vets got a lot of them. I was nearly one back in the very early 70’s. We do not need federal intervention in these areas. That has been the problem. Back when we where a nation of self-reliant folks, churches and they still do, help people in need. Cities developed centers for that purpose. State supported entities helped to poor. However, now we are over-run with federal doctrine and control where once it was local. Does anyone realize the billions that obama and wife have spent for their vacations let alone his political junkets? Alternatively, the trips weekly on an Air Force jet that Madame Pelosi made from DC to her home in California. Every time these people transit from one location to another, the secret service is there. That cost money. Instead of cutting the military, which obama has done nearly 50%; let us change the footprint of the federal mammoth. Stand on your on d amn two feet.

Some good ol boy said beware the military industrial complex. The bankers want us to have a war. Develop a war plan for China? Probably have one, just not realistic. We have an experienced well equipped military, just dont’ want to pay the cost. We don’t make enlistment attractive because the politicians continually screw the military without setting the example. We ain’t gonna go to war with China for the same reason we didn’t go to war with Russia. Our president don’t want to use nukes, they have 3X the population, 50 years ago possibly, nowdays, I don’t think we have what it will take. Are folks gonna stand for rationing, the draft, and lots of waste fraud and abuse? Plenty body bags, I dont’ think our population has the stones for it.

What is our defense spending ALL these years , comparing to the Chinese’s? What is it in term of per man, woman and child in the US?

Mean while, one of our major cities, Detroit is declaring bankruptcy for a mere $18 billion.….less than the building of one aircraft carrier. Many municpalities are failing…

For us, there has been consistent war, engagement, peace operation, whatever you call it since 1964, and China had just one during the same period(with Vietnam), for which we applauded and did not want to do a sequel. China learned quickly the cost of that VICTORY! We have had VICTORIES ever since Vietnam, Maraquez, Iranian Hostages,Guanada, Panama, Iraq I and II, and Afghanistan, plus numerous operations with our allies — trying to keep peace or save someone on earth. Have we made them better, really? What have we learned, other than the war on drugs never ends, the slow but surely abridgement of freedoms in the war against terrorism?

China being an economic power of today, where does her money come from? From the Chinese workers — be it sweatshop,poor quality products or what not. They worked and toiled. No banking, real estate, or financial manipulations(these are coming to China though). Maybe a better China Plan is to send Wall Street folks, such as former AIG CEO, to China. While we are given up jobs overseas for the bottomline, we are waiting for handouts, entitlements, and shifting the funds from one pot to pay another (social security, Obama care) in the US of A.

Why do we need more wars or confrontations, to protect the citizens, or just somebody’s money so the profits can be ‘invested’ overseas? Where is Diplomacy in this? Sorry, we just have the rich and politically connected for ambassadors. And in every four years, they will be in musical chairs, just as our foreign policy — other than the bottom line of profits, .

It is us, as Pogo has said, the ‘enemy’ is ourselves. If we can increase the growth of our economy just as China in all these years. Can, or will anyone pick a fight with us? Ditto former USSR.

Do you agree that only crappy people use craps/crappy products?

A lot of writing and posturing…remember history (keeps on repeating itself) and read Mahan. We are an island nation and without control of the seas we will be a Great Britain. Ike said “beware of the industrial/military complex and that complex took him to heart. LCR’s, F35’s, x number of camo patters, 650ft. Ship with 150 crew members (Zumwault), and the lst goes on and on and on. We are an empire on decline. Just as we put spent the USSR during Regan’s tenure the PRC is doing it to us. China is catching up technology wise because they are taking our ides and improving or adapting to their requirements. 5000 years and still going strong. Time is on their side.

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