Brazil Selects Swedish Fighter Over Super Hornet

Brazil Selects Swedish Fighter Over Super Hornet

Leaders from Brazil’s Air Force announced Wednesday they planned to buy 36 Swedish-made Gripen fighters instead of the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet.

Leading up to this week’s announcement, many expected Boeing to win the $4.5 billion contract, following a decade-long competition. Along with Boeing, the Gripen, made by Saab, also beat out the French fighter Rafale, which is built by Dassault. French President François Hollande even lobbied for the Rafale in a trip to Brazil last week.

However, the Brazil Air Force surprised many and chose the Gripen because of costs and performance, Defense Minister Celso Amorim said.

The air forces of Sweden, South Africa, the Czech Republic, Thailand and Hungary also fly the Gripen. The multi-role fighter can carry 6.5 tons of armament and equipment. It is also armed with a 27 mm Mauser BK-27 cannon.

Brazil’s choice of the Gripen over the Super Hornet is a major blow to Boeing. The U.S. aviation giant was counting on the Brazil order to extend production of the Super Hornet in St. Louis as the assembly line is scheduled to close in the next two years.

Members of the U.S. Congress have pushed for the Navy to buy more Super Hornets as a hedge against failings within the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program. However, the Navy is scheduled to buy its last Super Hornet in 2016.

In June, it appeared Boeing was working to clinch the fighter award at the Paris Air Show when it announced a partnership with Brazilian defense company Embraer on the KC-390, a medium sized airlifter that Embraer has developed. Boeing officials just smiled when asked if the announcement of the partnership with a Brazilian company had anything to do with the fighter competition.

Questions have arisen if the reports that the National Security Agency was spying on the Brazilian government and private companies had any role in Brazil’s decision. Some analysts have said Boeing’s bid lost momentum around that time. Aviation analyst Richard Aboulafia told the St. Louis Dispatch that he felt the leads provided by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden played a role.

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I think Sweden should send a big check to Snowden in Russia

Or the NSA should be forced to stop their industrial espionage. I’ve read many articles on how almost all wealthy and bric countries are now going to use and establish NON US companies for their services, and how they’re going to curtail the use of almost all US tech giants. Guess what? That’s money out of YOUR pockets, because the NSA is running amock. Even talk of starting our ‘own’ internet etc, because the NSA is such a cancerous leach/tick, it’s sucking the information out of everybody, so much that they can’t even Fing process it. It hurts America MUCH more than it helps it. Security, what a joke. That’s what the CIA/military is for. It’s about economy. Thousands of Boeing workers are now going to have their jobs terminated years prematurely because of this CR AP. That’s American hardware with almost 100% US content that’s NOT going to get build (and exported which means foreigners pay THEIR money into your hands). Sad situation.

The NSA spying scandal didn’t help at all. It made it worse and making it very hard to sell Military gear overseas.

Something tells me this isn’t the final word from Brazil.

The Super Hornet was the favorite until the NSA scandal. In all honesty, Saab won this contract fair in square. They have made an excellent product that maximizes bang for buck and simply have not gotten the recognition they deserve. I’m happy for Saab and I’m glad they won. The JAS-39E Gripen will serve the Brazilian Air Force extremely well.

Also, quick side note: The Super Hornet vs F-35C Fight Round Two is still not over. Since Boeing got snubbed by Brazil because of the administration’s spying I wonder if that will give them a few more talking points. There are already people blaming the Obama administration for the lost $4 billion plus dollars in work the USA would have gotten if Boeing won the contract. If the Super Hornet line closes, which currently employs more than 5,000 jobs based at the plant in St. Louis, then the lost jobs could end up being blamed on Obama’s administration too as the Brazilian order would have kept the line open and the Super Hornet was the clear favorite. I see many possibilities for the future right now and I have high hopes that the Navy will be allowed to buy more Super Hornets.

The Navy will have to order a few more just off of attrition, and Canada remains highly interested. Despite the slow trickle of news, Canada is the most important fight right now. They have a substantial order for the F-35, and if it’s cancelled, there could very well be a ripple effect.

You really managed to spin off an article about the Gripen into the F/A-18 vs F-35C saga?

If you’re surprised by me doing this now you must be really daft.

By the way, your last name wouldn’t happen to be Brennan would it? There’s a William C. Brennan who is a software engineer for Lockheed Martin and has held five different billets. This seem familiar to you?:


political asylum for snowden in Sweden?

Doesn’t matter if those foreign countries partner with the NSA to begin with.

So long as the NSA continues to make deals at the nation-state level with the right countries, and so long as the internet requires global connections, it’s a matter of tapping the right lines in the ocean, or the right land-lines.

I guess we’ll have to strace our traffic and see when traffic corresponds to nations that have sweetheart deals with the NSA, and be different.

“Ms. Barnes, get me the number for the Parallax Corporation”.

— Boeing CEO request to personal secretary overheard near the water cooler.

OTOH, people blaming the Obama administration if it rains too hard when they planned on having a picnic, and the GOP wasted 4 years trying to pin the blame on Obama for the economy they wrecked after inheriting a financially solvent nation, at peace, with an $800B annual budget surplus.

The NSA spying on other nations began LONG before Obama got into office, with the largest expansions of spying programs starting 7.5 years ago, well before Obama too the oath of office (i.e. the executive branch, and both houses of congress were in GOP hands).

Obama may have his faults — but this isn’t one of them.

Since Snowden spilled swedish defence “secrets” I dont think he to welcomed.

America has 315 million people. It’s sad to see entities not being held accountable (sure other countries have such problems as well, and shame on the politicians who make this possible. It’s a self-growing beast). If there would be a referendum, more than 90% of Americans would DISagree with this, as freedom/liberty loving people. Your politicians have created a gigantic monster after 9/11 and before it even, and there is no way of stopping it right now. It’s hurting your image, and by extension, the image of your produce and goods. It’s all negative in the end. I want the old America back of the 30’s and 40’s. That can actually lead.

Off topic, now with the disgusting AIPAC motherless whores in the Senate are pushing a bill to pretty much make war with Iran inevitable. I already cry for the soldiers that will be sent into that hell of a war. Iraq times 20 is how bad it is. I can’t even imagine, and as an ‘atheist’ pray that it doesn’t happen. Good luck guys, you showed how the American people have the power (during the Syria war mongering), you need to quadruple those efforts now!


Any country, especially the US, sells military hardware (when we’re talking high tech things like jets/ships etc) with a ‘off switch’. Or whatever it’s called. So that America can disable, or unable the weapons. This is good, especially when sold to ‘meh’ countries, that have questionable reputations, like in the middle east.
This is different. The fact is you guys (Americans) need to understand just how MUCH anger and outrage there actually is in other WESTERN freedom loving nations. Like in Germany/Brazil/France etc, when news keeps leaking out about how our leaders/companies etc and even our population is tapped by the NSA. Do you even realize how big of a breach in SOVEREIGNTY that entails? It stabs a big stick right through the heart. Like the Chinese wiretapping the President and leaders in the Senate/Congress. That would also stir quite the angry crowd. This beast needs to be slayed. It used to be only militaries were tapping each other. Now it’s every single bit of data. It’s the new game I suppose. Hacker vs hacker. But it sure has tarnished America’s name, and not completely fair actually. European countries/Russia/China etc tap everybody too, yet that gets less news headlines.

That is a load of crap, Policy. Sound just like Obama trying to point the finger of blame at everyone but where it really rests. Give it up…

BlackOwl, BUSH started this NSA crap, and the NSA existed even before this. Don’t make your rightwing hatred for the blackie in office blind/skew your facts. Obama sent BIDEN as a SALES MAN to brazil to sell these planes and after the NSA scandal. The MIC in the US has existed since 1938/1939, and has grown ever bolder and more shameless. I too am sad that Boeing didn’t get the contract, and I hope it isn’t completely final, but I’d like to tell you how extremely angry the Brazilian people are because of this. It’d pretty much be political suicide now in Brazil for a politician to decide for the f18 now sadly. And they can’t get away with nonsense such as ‘the AF wants the f-18, not us’. The NSA is tarnishing a lot, and these few 1000 jobs are just one of it. Don’t blame it on Obama, it’s been going on long before. And what if he came out and said we need to disband the NSA, would congress let him? No.

Brazil came close to a good decision, but perhaps may have missed a significant opportunity. …unless the recent news reports got their facts wrong.

Brazil has invested quite a lot into refitting their CATOBAR (catapult assisted take-off, but arrested recovery) aircraft carrier, Sao Paulo. But it is being reported that Brazil is buying the Saab JAS 39 Gripen E, a non-CATOBAR land based fighter. CATOBAR fighters are designed to operate from CATOBAR aircraft carriers and can also operate from land based runways, but a modern conventional jet fighter aircraft not designed for CATOBAR cannot operate from the CATOBAR aircraft carrier. Since Brazil will acquire only a small quantity of fighters, it would seem to make more sense for those to be all CATOBAR, to allow greater flexibility in use, and to provide greater reserve depth for replacing lost fighters.

Saab has taken their Sea Gripen concept, and have invested in some engineering development effort toward a STOBAR (short take-off, but arrested recovery) redesign of the JAS 39 Gripen E. A redesign for STOBAR goes well beyond a navalised arresting hook and includes a necessary and non-trivial structural redesign that strengthens airframe, main gear and nose gear. Arrested recovery to a carrier flight deck, often described as a controlled crash, does not include the cushioning flare used in conventional landing. It places high loads on the main gear, and the tug on the arresting hook also levers a high load onto the nose gear, all requiring support in the airframe. STOBAR jump ramp also imposes a high load on nose gear. CATOBAR catapult tow requires associated features in the nose gear, and imposes some different loading than STOBAR, but the redesign to CATOBAR from STOBAR would be far less effort than adding arrested recovery capability to an aircraft designed for conventional landing.

What I am getting to here is that Brazil should be acquiring a CATOBAR Gripen based on the STOBAR redesign of the JAS 39 Gripen E, else it is a missed opportuunity, and a near-miss at that.

The Sucker Bee is a piece of crap in its own right. It’s not politics that make it suck. As an F-5/T-38 it makes a good short range fighter/trainer, but that’s all it is, short range. Scale it up and that’s all it still is, short range. If you don’t have a fleet of tankers they can hit just after take-off then you don’t need that airplane. The Gripen has good short field performance, turns well, has decent legs, and carries a decent amount of punch for its size.

…But you would have NO ISSUES if all these countries buying American-built military hardware were instead buying European-built military hardware…?

When the average European Union taxpayer suddenly finds their money subsidizing foreign military sales programs directed by the EU, just as the American taxpayer has to subsidsize umpteen FMS contracts the US government feels so eager to dole out, then we’ll have a true fair and balanced playing field.

Few people in the US would actually miss a majority of our troublesome federal AND state politicians if they were gone all the sudden. I’m not the only person who recognizes that America’s greatest troublemakers aren’t Arabs or Muslims or other foreigners, but rather the bitter old Cold War leftovers we have in charge of our federal government who are far too eager to see the world drug into another big war where no one questions where the money flows.

And people blamed Bush for the Patriot Act, too.
But the NSA, like the Patriot Act, notice that the current administration did NOTHING to curtail what it felt the previous administration was doing wrong, but rather further expanded on what both (NSA, Patriot Act) can be used for, and who they can be used against.

The only thing we can really say the Obama administration is better at doing than the Bush administration,
is sowing even more mistrust around the world.

The STO part has always been part of the Gripen’s inherent design (Short Take Off), going back to the earlier Viggen. Operation under austere conditions and sections of highway, even rural roads wide enough when cleared of snow, has been a “Swedish thing” for decades (or at least something they liked to “show off with” to foreigners.

A tooled-up Gripen has far better take-off and landing role than any other Western fighter, which always prefer long and safe built-up runways with every modern amenity and comfortable hangars to house in when undergoing maintenance.
For physical size, adopting Gripen (between the F-5s and Mirages) will require less “aviation infrastructure” investment than it would take to operate a larger aircraft like the Super Hornet.

A plus side: hopefully this will keep Boeing hands out of other Brazilian aviation projects: we don’t need them meddling in the Embraer KC390 program, not in the least.

As I recall, the Parallax Corporation was thought to recruit assassins, when it fact it recruited fall guys.

id say BIG deal both planes have same capabilities and The F-18 is slower and less maneuverable than the Griphen. Its a good planes just a dippy country its built in. Overall the F-18 is overblown and is less capable than its teen fighter brothers the F-15 and F-16. It was a huge mistake also to retire the F-14 in favor of this small little plane. Time for the Navy to build a new Fleet defender.

Damn straight. F it’s the M-16 of the fighter world. No matter how crappy it performs the Navy just can’t get enough of them. It’s unbelievable they gave up the F-14 for these. Of course, this is the service that pays more for a damn LCS than it did for an Iowa class battleship, and then turns around and decommissions the Mighty Mo’ because the costs are too high. When did our military become a welfare system for these f’ing defense contractors? How about they look out for the US taxpayer’s interests for a change and quit flushing all our money down the defense contractor toilet?

I’m pretty sure I saw a version of the Viggen Saab made that had an all flying canard that was integrated with the wing. I don’t know if it was a prototype or what, but that thing looked like it could land on a dime with that huge canard. Those make a great air brake on landing. Just flip them down toward the ground and they complete blank out the lift of the wing, making the brakes very effective and throwing out a huge amount of drag. The Swedes get that. I don’t know why the Eurofighter went with such a tiny canard. What the hell good does that do?

I don’t understand how this decision “surprised many”. The two times the Brazilian Air Force was asked to perform a technical analysis of the contenders, the Gripen won. Sure, it may be less capable than the others, but it was cheaper, and included a broader transfer of technology. Remember that the FAB is trying to replace a fleet of F-5 that mainly perform Air Defense/Border Patrol missions.

The Gripen is a good bird for what it does, and for the price.

The Gripen is going to be instant dead meat if used as a first-day doorkicker against a modern anti-access IADS, of course. But the Brazilians are not going to be having to do anything like that.

And, if the Brazilians want to expand their Gripen purchase later on, they could buy South Africa’s jets, which are not being flown due to the inability of the South Africans to train sufficient numbers of competent pilots.

As for those who are bemoaning the fact that the F-14 was killed to make room for the substantially less capable Super Bug, it’s indisputably true that the USN accepted a reduced capability in doing so. But remember a couple of other things:

The F-14’s cost per flying hour, its dispatch rate, and its ratio of maintenance hours to flying hours were all horrendous. Its primary armament, the AIM-54, was also technically finicky and operationally fragile.

By contrast, the Hornet (in all versions) has radically better operating costs, maintenance hour ratios, and dispatch rate. Can’t fight a war with a jet that is down for repair.

The Bug also has much better boarding manners and is a safer plane to operate for less able naval aviators. (Remember, fifty percent of the flying community by definition are at or below average.) The Tomcat could be a handful to get back on deck even on a good day. The late Lt. Kara Hultgreen might have lived through her fatal final approach accident if she had been flying a Hornet derivative.

I thought all the Tomcat’s problems were due to the engines.

Spying to make your industry more competitive started somewhere in 1984 (approx) by … the French!

But to put the blame on Bush is beyond delusion; none of these programs were scaled back under the Obama administration. Neither of them is the sole responsible but that doesn’t make the current administration less responsible of their politics.

Spying on France a scandal? The DST is one of the few country in the world that is collecting signals with hundreds of listening stations all accross the world, and under all appearances is actively spying on united states.

How can you be surprised?

Surprising that it makes a difference in Brazil as the leaks showed it as a Canadian ops. But it will be hardly the only case where that spying scandal affects a bidding.

The F-14 also loved to get into flat spins.

BTW, if the NSA was so cavalier about tapping and monitoring all of our (and our allie’s) comms, what logical person would not be CONVINCED that the NSA installs “bugs” in every military system that has comms that we sell to other countries???

AFAIK such systems was already in place when it occurred.

Sweetheart deals == fives eyes. :-)

I think that the biggest breach of trust occurred with the weakening of an ecc based random number generator standardized by the NIST and the illegal surveillance right from embassy in a friendly country like Germany, or of the wiretapping of the European commission.

All the other scandals that I am aware (i.e. tapping the trans-atlantic cables) were more of a cat and mouse game with the legal system, with the complicity of the concerned country. Hardly something that will infringe the relations with uncle Sam.

The best thing they could do is to draw a clear line of what not to do, but that mean loosing some opportunity, and I suspect all those conspirationists in charge to call another 9/11 because of the loss of flexibility.

Like an american economist already said, “In growth we thrust”.

Coming next: ” Hey boss all this accountability slow me down, we got to stop keeping trace of what we are doing.”. The dream of all anarchist.

NSA silliness aside, the Gripen is the cheapest and more than enough for the Brazilian’s needs. Seems like an obvious choice to me.

The Dilma Rousseff president of Brazil (the woman) actually wanted to INCREASE friendship and ties with the US when she came into office a few years ago. The previouw president, Lula, wanted the French warplanes Rafale. This woman increasingly went to the F-18 instead, but then it was revealed the NSA tapped her PERSONAL communications. Can you imagine the outrcy? This is a country that riots for MONTHS because they are investing tens of billions for the World Cup and Olympics, yet you think they won’t get outraged if a foreign power is tapping their President’s phones? So how do you expect her to kill herself politically and order the f-18 anyway? Think the big picture here, Monroe Doctrine wise, WTF are you doing to your ‘fellow Americans’, as in AmericaS continent? You should form a union, they aren’t your competitors, you could greatly profit off them.

The D model solved those issues.

The threat to the fleet today is below the waves, not above.

I think the Naval air is a separate force from the air force. As for San Paulo, the ship has been a money pit since they bought it from France.

Except for the range.

I seriously doubt that any competent army were not aware of the possibility of buying military hardware with backdoor installed; only the incompetent and the naïve could be “surprised” by snowden’s revelations. If it has an incidence then it must be from clueless politicians or worse, it prove that they put the wrong person in charge.

Right now I suspect the NSA to laughing loud at those third world countries trying to homebrew their own crypto without having the required expertise to do so. Or even better, a crypto that is not properly implemented. Quite a bit OT so for a concrete example just Google “decryptocat tobtu” (I never used that program BTW). First result, just skip a couple of paragraph and enjoy.

As a Swedish aviation geek, I’m delighted Brazil chose the Gripen fighter. I’m convinced they’ll be very pleased with its capabilities, operational availability, ease of maintenance, and so forth. But I like the Super Hornet as well, and I really hope the U.S. Navy can convert some of its F-35 orders into F/A-18E&Gs. I’m sure the F-35 will be an effective weapons system when the sensor fusion and data links have been developed, but its kinematic performance, or lack thereof, is just downright disheartening.

I remember when there were tons of pro-Brazilian posters championing the buy of the Super Tucano over the domestic produced AT-6B as a gesture to get them to buy F-18s. They are long gone now…

“However, the Brazil Air Force surprised many and chose the Gripen because of costs and performance,”

Uh, the AT-6B was 40% cheaper, US made and had almost identical specs but we bought the Super Tuc. HILARIOUS!!!

CE you show me the perfect Ideal uninformed European.

“It’s all negative in the end. I want the old America back of the 30’s and 40’s. That can actually lead. ”

You mean the country that hand in effect no military to speak of. Who’s rulers were freaking OBLIVIOUS to reality, did nothing while hitler and the Nazis went on parade enforce through Europe and started the slaughter of 6,000,000 Jews and even more roma, disabled people, etc?


REALITY. Everything you do on a phone or internet is most likely being recorded by someone somewhere. Not just the US but by many countries. CHINA most especially. EVERY world leaders Cell phones etc are in effect Tapped. Obama gave up the crack berry for a reason.

The scary part. The US sucks at this type of thing. There are many a lot better than us.

I figured who ever gave the most tech transfer would get the deal.

Idiots once again got lead by the nose and gave a ton of stuff then got screwed.

the threat to the fleet 2 day is a DF-21D!

Reality check — back in seventies/eighties, US could offer plethora of fighter designs:F-14, F-15, F-16, F/A-18, even F-20 for some time. Today, it is gone — there is only one new bodydesign (F-35), F-16 and F-15 production lines are running for exports only, F/A-18E has no real market potential (naval, underpowered, small nose, no IRST, close to Northrop´s original YF-17 in overall shape (except the size). In terms of weight in Su-30 category, and orders for Su-30s come and come, as it is good clean airframe with great fuel fraction, great dogfighter, real radar, T/V if you please. What future holds in terms of competition is a lot more interesting — J-31, MiG-35, Su-35, T-50 (Sukhoi), J-11B, maybe new Russian lightweight fighter. Simply put — US has lost its advantage in fighter market and will keep on loosing, get along with it​.It all started in early nineties and there is no end at sight.

“F/A-18E has … no IRST”

The advanced –18 variants being shown by Boeing do have a low profile airframe-integrated IRST.

It is yet to be seen how well that works. It also has not been disclosed whether the sensor unit can be retrofitted into existing –18 airframes. But the capability exists.

LOL… Finally a Country with common sense. They did not purchase JSF… Smart, Very Smart folks. To bad our DOD did not purchase the Gripen. After 20 plus years of JSF development we could afford millions of SAAB platforms that WORK and are not obsolete before they IOC in 2021.

You are correct. The F/A-18E is nothing more than a plumed Texaco Station for the F and G. JSF is the platform that will soon be refueling a Strike Mission returning to the CVN. We decided to spend Trillions on JSF rather than building a Tanker for our Strike Aircraft. So now we have no Refueler on-board and no where to take. All we have on the Deck are F/A-18E/F’s and EA-18G’s. Those 650’s will look great on JSF Pylons. First Trillion Dollar Texaco Station from the Great republican State of Texas…

Having served when the F14 and F18 were both in service I can tell you this much. Carriers would depart on deployment with 24 F14 running all CAP duties. When the Carrier would come back The F18’s would be running CAP as all of the F14’s were down for repair. There isn’t a lot of dispute that the F14 was a great mission platform but it was also a maintenance nightmare. The info bus structure was a major headache and the plane had never been designed for ease of maintenance. As the aircraft aged the problems only got worse. Please don’t get me wrong, I loved the old Tomcat, but I would have hated having to keep one in the air.

Negative, that is a different guy I’m afraid.

The USN retired their tankers based on the A-6 and S-3 years ago. The USN never seemed to show much interest in the “Common Support Aircraft” idea that would have (on paper) replaced such aircraft.

The Super Hornet can do “buddy-refueling” however and it seems the Navy is content with that capability.

What would have been a good choice was the proposed KA-6H which would have been based on the enlarged EA-6B airframe, carrying more fuel than the tired KA-6Ds it would replace.

The JSF was never really on the table. They wanted something that would also provide strong industrial offsets and a large degree of technology transfer. Brazil wasn’t one of the JSF partner nations so they really couldn’t get that. They also need the aircraft soon to replace aging F-5s.

In what bizarre universe could we afford MILLIONS of Gripens with the money spent to date on the JSF? If we wanted an aircraft like the Gripen we could have had the F-20 Tigershark back in the 1980s. IOC in 2021? Subscribe to APA?

Could either the Super Hornet or Rafale M operate from Brazil’s São Paulo aircraft carrier? It’s an old and rather small carrier but being able to operate a modern fighter from it may have been useful.

Even more hilarious would be if Brazil bought the Super Hornets after Snowden’s revelations. don’t you think?

The F/A-18E/F is the best carrier fighter attack plane in the world. Fact. But for a country that plans to use it from land it’s not the best bang for the buck. The Gripen is a lower cost fighter attack plane that is perfect for countries with limited budgets and needs. It was never designed to go up against EF200s and F-22s, F-15Es in the marketplace. Congrats to the Swedes!

PLA have not demonstrated an ability to hit a moving ship at sea well beyond the horizon with a DF-21D.

Having the capability and not demonstrating would defeat the deterrent purpose. Their failure to demonstrate indicates higher probability that the system does not work well enough to demonstrate.

So far they have a missile that can hit stationary targets on land at known locations. They will need to integrate that into a system that can find and track the moving target, and can provide course corrections to the missile. A failure in any of that is a failure in all of that, is a failure to place the missile on target. And the target isn’t passive prey.

For some reason the DoD has never beenbig on IRST. Only the F-14D had one. But after numerous exercises against foreign planes with IRSTthe DoD is finally seeing their usefullness and has placeto install themon Hornets, F-15s and F-16s.

Not really. We don’t see the Japanese, Philippines, S. Korea, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Poland etc. killing deals because we got caught doing what we and they have always done. All nations spy on each other. That’s why embassies have “cultural” and military attaches.

Wasn’t the F-14 basically built to kill the Tu-22M? With the Soviet Union out of business, and all the maintenance issues, we could probably afford to retire the F-14.

They’d call and tell us if that wasn’t true.

Maybe the USAF could do like NASA and buy rides for their pilots in Russian Su-30s. That way they could get to see what it’s like to pilot a real combat airplane instead of flying simulators and video games.

Well, if you think that people should just take in the behind and be okay with it then that is your choice. People just don’t want to be screwed by bad business and today buying American (military gear only) is bad business. The country can’t function (congress), and if they had bought the F/A 18 SH, what would be the guarantee congress wouldn’t deny the tech transfer the brazilians were after. Also, the Tucanos that the air force bought was more like a patch up because congress denied Brazil the sale of Super Tucanos to Venezuela, tit for tat. Merry Christmas and happy holidays. :)

The D model solved a majority of issues, from engine woes to operational costs, and even the finicky Phoenix was more reliable in its –C model than the F-14A-and-early-model-Phoenix data an earlier poster here used to justify why the Super Hornet was a better choice.

One needed only to look at where Grumman planned to take the Tomcat with the finalized ASF-21 design to see the F-14 airframe was far too superior in potential than anything Boeing can refashion out of the Super Hornet design.
Sadly, the Tomcat wasthe last in a long line of Grumman Cats to grace the decks of naval aviation.
Now we have adequate as the enemy of best.

Brazil is gambling for a 25 years long fighter choice.starting from 2020 !
The Grippen using ITAR components as for exemple engines and weapons could be grounded as soon the US administration want it.
For sure, it is better than the F 5 but not that much in range.

and –f18 wouldn’t?

(get killed in an encounter with an IADS)
i also doubt that hornet is cheaper to fly and maintain then the smaller and one-engined gripen.
pro-american bias probably.

All the big IT companies are starting to report large drops in orders in overseas markets due to the fallout from NSA spying. Companies like RSA which have been completely compromised will just have to shut up shop, and for the rest its hard to sell anything when American made or American owned brings American corruption too.

Just another Country thumbing their nose at the US foreign policy. About the only thing our Diplomats are good at is.…screwing up with our long-time friends and long-time allies.…. Seems like it is the fault/short comings of the Johnny come lately crowd of Harvard and other “questionable” areas of educating or our young???? Guess part of the current recruiting is to overlook the idiots that are being employed????

@ Michael Hoffman , I think Dassult may be more upset, as they were the favorites

I think this is hilarious and is a great indicator of what other countries think of the United States. Didn’t our country just “forgive” brazil a multi-trillion dollar debt and didn’t our government just assist in the set up of General Electric turbine engine building/re-building facilities in Brazil.

By the way doesn’t the Super Hornet use General Electric F414 engines. I suppose Brazil just told us thank you for the cash and gave a us the proverbial finger.…


But it went beyond a special office with specialized personal. Like when NSA that used a listening station with the knowledge of the concerned country not for collecting signal of the general population but rather they took advantage of its location to tap the European commission.

On the other hand secret subpoena simply killed the trust that customer and more importantly corporate can have toward Americans IT company. For decades every geeks know that there is no privacy with hotmail, but to have a secret court order towards service company where they must give their SSL key and an unlimited access to whatever they want, whenever they want, and it’s not negotiable. Lavabit chose to shut down instead, but who know where it stop?

RSA got $10M for something and nobody know exactly what; either a backdoor on purpose or to keep using something secretly known to be broken. Would you keep your corporate secure with their products? I don’t think so. And since you don’t know whether or not they had the choice are you going to trust another silicone valley competitor?

What I think is that those situations will backslash in 5 or 10 years jus like it WMD in Irak did when it was time to act against Syria. UK could not participate (in great part I believe) because of that. So no lost of allied per say but something potentially annoying in the near future.

The Gripen NG will also use the General Electric F414, so no need for complaints.

Viggen had reverse thrust. Basically it closed a door on the the jet outlet forcing the jetbeam forward, allowing it to stop in 400 m. Take-Off in about 500 m.

F-14’s can be retrofitted with new avionics and be just as reliable as F-18’s, but F-18’s cannot be retrofitted with good aerodynamics. That’s why the F-18 continues to suck and the F-14 is missed by those who know something about airplanes beyond what they are told by the Navy’s propaganda machine.

At least not until GE starts producing them in their new plant in China…

Their carrier is an old french Carrier (Foch), the Rafale flew from from the Foch/Sao Paulo when the ship was French.

This decision was not completely influenced by the NSA revelations but signifcantly so.

My question to Americans is this — for years you condemnded the Soviet Union for their lack of freedom and virtual police state where the KGB was assumed to be monitoring everyone (when in fact the reality wasnt anywhere near as bad as they didnt have the capacity to monitor on the scale the NSA does now for example) yet the situation that exists in the US is far worse than it ever was in the USSR with regard to privacy and surveillance by the state yet there is not the outrage that you would expect in the land of the free by the ‘champions of liberty’? Why is that? Its totally contrary to what the Founding Fathers envisaged.

It turns out that we were “the land of the free,” but certainly were not the “home of the brave,” and ya’ gotta be both. Who knew? So our government runs over us, our defense contractors give it to us the ass time after time, and we just take it because that’s the kind of people we are. A real beacon of, uh, something…

I’m convinced. Americans can never be happy. We complain for years about how the government doesn’t listen, so the NSA starts… and now we complain about that too!

I would protest, but I have to go to work everyday to pay off my credit cards.

Thanks for your precious opinion. Meantime here are some great Hornet photos:


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