Levin Backs Apaches for Iraq – With Limits

Levin Backs Apaches for Iraq – With Limits

The U.S. should send Apache attack helicopters, F-16 fighters and other advanced weaponry to Iraq but only if the Shiite-dominated government of President Nouri al-Maliki guarantees that the arms will not used in a sectarian campaign against Sunni rivals for influence, Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., said Thursday.

“With credible assurances, it would be appropriate to provide such assistance,” Levin, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a Senate floor speech.

“The issue here is not whether such aircraft would help Iraq fight violent extremists — they would,” Levin said. “The question is whether the Maliki government would use them only against violent extremists, and whether we receive credible assurances that such weapons will be used to target Iraq’s real enemies, and not to further sectarian political objectives.”


The Obama administration, rattled by images of Al Qaeda flags flying over the flashpoint towns of Fallujah and Ramadi, announced Monday that the U.S. was speeding up the delivery of Hellfire air-to-ground missiles and reconnaissance drones to Iraq.

In his White House visit last November, Maliki asked for Apaches and F-16s to bolster his forces against inroads by fighters of the Al Qaeda-linked Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), which is also active in Syria.

In his speech, Levin also renewed debate with Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and others over the failure at the end of 2010 to reach agreement with Maliki for the continued presence of a U.S. follow-on force. The lack of an agreement led Obama to order the total withdrawal of U.S. forces.

“We could have left a residual force behind, it could have been done,” McCain said Tuesday. “This administration wanted everybody out and they got everybody out. And we predicted that without that residual force – not for fighting but to assist the Iraqi military — that this whole thing would unravel. It has.”

Levin countered that “While there was disagreement in the administration over the size of a residual force, what decided the issue wasn’t how many troops would remain. Rather, it was the Iraqi government’s refusal to agree to legal protections for residual U.S. troops, whatever their number.”

“In the absence of such protections, it was the opinion of our military leaders that no U.S. forces should remain in Iraq,” Levin said.
Secretary of State John Kerry has ruled out sending U.S. troops back to Iraq, saying that the battle to clear Fallujah and Ramadi was a “fight that belongs to the Iraqis.”

In a Tuesday appearance at the National Press Club, Gen. Ray Odierno, the Army’s chief of Staff, backed up Kerry.

“We’re trying to coach them as best we can on these issues,” Odierno said of the Iraqis, but “This is certainly not the time to put American troops on the ground. I think it’s time for them to step up and see what they can do.”

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Oh hell NO. The Israelis would have one massive hissy fit over that Idea. Maybe we can give the Iraqi’s the AT-6 Texan II & USED AH-1W cobra’s. I would not trust the Iraqi’s with the AH-64 cause they may sell it to the Iranians and we may have some used AH-1’s in the bone yard that we can refurbished and give to the Iraqi’s. Besides, they are getting the MI-28 and MI-35 from Russia & should arrive in time to help them out.

Levin rejects Ayotte bill to repeal military pension cuts.
http://​thehill​.com/​b​l​o​g​s​/​d​e​f​c​o​n​-​h​i​l​l​/​b​u​d​g​e​t​-​a​p​pro

(1) “…President Nouri al-Maliki guarantees that the arms will not be used in a sectarian campaign against Sunni rivals for influence…” But that’s EXACTLY what he intends to do with them!

(2) “…it was the Iraqi government’s refusal to agree to legal protections for residual U.S. troops, whatever their number.” EXACTLY! Iraq refused to let the American soliders off the hook for raping and indiscrimately killing their citizens. I would have said no, too.

(3) The central government IS Shia, and, of course, will let one fall into Iranian (basically Russian and Chinese) hands, so they can reverse engineer it.

(4) Plus, you don’t need helicopter gunships to fight an insurgency. You need a one-on-one soldier-to-insurgent. Technology didn’t win it for us, and it won’t win it for them. These are just American arms sales, supporting the permanent American war industry.

DO NOT GIVE THEM ANY!!! They will end up being GIVEN TO OTHER, NEIGHBORS, for their use!!

Send them to who? Levin just spouting off at the mouth with no clue about what he is talking about.

How much you want to make a bet the Iranians will sneak in spy’s to steal the Apache design and reverse engineer it

Trust me, if LEVIN says it’s okay, his Israeli overlords and puppet masters have agreed with it. Because still, with a few f-16’s and Apaches, they are NO match to the Israeli armed forces. I don’t understand from this article what ‘sending’ means? Does it means US military apaches and f-16’s, flown by AMERICANS, protected by Iraqi ground personell, or the SALE of said weapons? Because Iraq is already buying some f-16’s, but I never heard of an Apache sale to Iraq.

Yes, pension cuts for newcomers and not for those already getting a pension/nearing their pension. US service members’ pensions have been fatted up because of the Iraq and a bit the Afghanistan war (need to make big money promises to lure people into fighting those wars). Now that they’re over and Afghanistan almost over, no need for such gold plated benefits lifelong for US troops who aren’t (for now, and I hope for a long time) being sent into wars.

Apache is 70’s/80’s tech, even if steadily modernized. It’s not like selling b-2 bombers or let’s say Virginia class sub tech to them. Hellfires are also very advanced, and they’re being sold. It’s all good.

Looks like Iran is getting a lot of tech this year.

AH-6i would be less expensive to acquire and operate, and would be better suited to Iraq’s COIN related needs. An export variant of the CH-47 might be useful for assault and heavy transport.

I wouldn’t be surprise if Iranian’s have spy’s in Iraq who are stealing the blueprints or designs from what we sell to Iraq.

I would have said an export version of the AH-1 would be more appropriate for Iraq

The cuts apply to people that retired over two decades ago. Pensions have been fattened up? How? Big money promises? You obviously aren’t familiar with bay scales or our pension structure.

You’re a glittering gem of ignorance.

The B2 is also 70s/80s tech. Both have been significantly modernized.

O9 and O10 grades received a bump a few years ago. Perhaps that’s what CE is thinking of.
One source: http://​www​.usatoday​.com/​s​t​o​r​y​/​n​e​w​s​/​n​a​t​i​o​n​/​2​0​1​4​/01

I love these total morons that think they can put future restrictions on things like weapons sales. What are you going to do if they decide to use these against the Sunnis say in two years from now? Are you going to send in troops to take them back? Not likely. How about you just assume that whatever you give them you can expect them to use in whatever way they see fit and that most likely someone you don’t like will eventually take power and have those weapons to use however they see fit (F-14’s an Iran anyone?)?

99% of the Washington Morons should stay away from military decisions! They should be taking care of the business they were elected to do! Every time there is a tough decision to be made; they take a 1 or 2 week vacation, and when they return, have amnesia! We need “TERM LIMITS” for these morons NOW!

Fighting “insurgents?” I think you are misinformed. These al-Qaida terrorists have eaten human flesh in SY. The ISIL are supported by SA & Qatar and are former hardcore Saddam Baathists converted to this sick new “Islam“
Selling weapons to IQ looks good & the Maliki gov will not give its secrets to any other country as promised/agreed by US & IQ.
People in Anbar are living way better today than anytime during the Saddam era. I know as I was born there!

Cheers:)

Sending aircraft is pointless unless there are already trained aviators in established units to skillfully fly them, maintainers to keep them flying, and and a logistics pipeline to provide spare parts. Mordor on the Potomac deals with problems by throwing a lot of money (and sometimes a lot of lives) at them but that’s not necessarily going to do much but enrich our domestic war profiteer corporations.

“Mordor on the Potomac…” has a nice ring to it!

Problem here is that it’s not good versus evil. It’s just one evil against another. Or a little evil against a big one.

Well, if we give those aircraft to Iraq, Al Qaeda will finally have it’s own air force.….

And Iranian parts support is available for them.

What I meant, maybe not necessarily pensions, but ‘benefits’ were greatly upped by Bush because he couldn’t find enough soldiers to join the military while the Iraq and Afgh wars were at their peak. Salary, danger pay etc were all upped I believe. And those levels are unsustainable now, and must be lowered to peace time levels.

You’re right, I know, but I mean there are many attack helo’s manufactured in many countries by many companies, the B-2 is a bit more up the food chain. That said, I don’t suppose the US wants Iran or China to get their hands on the tech.

What does Levin care, he is retiring after this term? He has screwed up enough already. He was adamant about us going to war in Iraq, but them started screaming that we should get out. He doesn’t know what he is doing.

I wonder who they will find to do the training. American Apache pilots know full well who has been shooting down their buddies for ten years.

Shenseki told the Bush administration that a successful war would take several hundred thousand (American) troops twenty years to accomplish. The harsh reality is that he was right on target, and the war was lost when that basic truth was rejected. It makes me sick to say it, but at this point we should just cut our losses.

Iraqi Army is made of very dedicated, brave, and patriotic soldiers; however, they are not united and not as intimidating and powerful as the former dissolved army. They need to be kept away from political division that really starts hurting the Iraq’s security. Maliky timed military operations in northern Iraq to gain more popularity and greater chance of being reelected. Although recent military operation in Anbar is meant to get rid of Daash (ISIL), prior tension between Maliki and his internal enemies made Anbar’s operation viewed as an attempt to eliminate Sunnis politically. Iraq gov powers distributed among parties based on sectarian quotas (thanks to Paul Bremer) which crippled the government and prevented it from operating firmly. Parliament leader (Nujaifi), Iraqia list, and Mutahidoon (Uniting) list withdrew from the gov and opposed military operation in Anbar because they think attacking Daash at this time serves Maliki’s agendas… to be followed

Iraqi gov is not entirely Shiite, many Sunnis in Maliki’s cabinet, heads of ministries (education, health, finance) and security forces. DoD Minister is Sunni (Sadoon Al Dulaimi). However, government is facing many problems, I can name two: first, Sunni politicians, just as Shiite, corrupt and work for regional agendas (Saudi, Turkey, and Qatar) against the interest of the current gov and the interest of their own people. Second, government tries to stay in power for second, third, and forth term. To do so, they created 2005 (National Reconciliation)-a governing system includes Sunnis, Shiites, Kurds, former Ba’athists and pro violence. The purpose was to get everyone participated and represented. This has let to one of the largest governments in the word (40+ ministries), it became impossible to make one decision without being looked at as what group it is representing! Example, in 2008 Maliki led, with help of our troops, Saulet Al Fursan (Knights’ charge) attack against Shiite militant Mahdi Army in Basra. Then, many Sunnis voted for him and viewed him as national hero…tobe followed

Problem now is that current gov is massive, dysfunctional, very corrupted; people are very frustrated. Security forces infiltrated by Sunni and Shiite militias and work without clear strategy and patriotic doctrine that can hold over 600,000 members together. Political process needs to be reworked substantially. Iraqi security forces need to be reorganized and rebuilt on nationalistic foundations; for example, like the Egyptian army.

System omitted the word Shiae, the other sect of Muslim beside Sunni

What’s the “peacetime” level of “danger pay”?

All the increases you speak of were minimal. Sign up and re-enlistment bonuses are largely gone except for the most needed specialties.

Keep talking. You do better making my case than I ever could. Like I said, a glittering gem.

Since when did the Israelis become our mother? Stop kissing the “Israelis” A$$.

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