China Report: Carriers, Drones and Stealth Fighters Advancing

China Report: Carriers, Drones and Stealth Fighters Advancing

China’s military will likely have multiple aircraft carriers, thousands of guided cruise and ballistic missiles, next-generation cyber-attack capabilities and fifth-generation stealth fighters by the end of this decade – according to a newly released Pentagon report on China.

The report characterizes the U.S.-China relationship as one containing both cooperation and competition or points of friction between the two countries.

Successful instances of progress with military to military cooperation between the U.S. and China are specified in the annual report to Congress, yet senior Pentagon officials remain concerned about China’s increasingly assertive behavior.

One senior Pentagon official cited China’s continued position regarding unification with Taiwan and its controversial stance on territorial disputes in the South China Sea and East China Sea.

“They are preparing for potential conflict in the Taiwan strait, which includes deterring or defeating third party intervention. That remains the focus and primary driver of much of China’s military investment,” a senior Defense official said.

China’s deployment of short-range ballistic missiles across from Taiwan has continued to grow substantially over the past year, he added. China now has more than 1,000 short range missiles deployed across from Taiwan, the senior official said.

“We highlight and note in this report that those deployments continue. Not only do we see and view missile moving into those areas but they are upgrading and improving the missiles that were there,” he said.  “Our policy on Taiwan is clear and consistent – we continue to remain committed to support and provide defense articles and services to enable Taiwan to maintain a sufficient self-defense capability.”

China’s defense spending continues to grow, jumping an average of 9.4 percent per year between 2004 and 2013, according to the report.  In March of 2013, China announced an annual military budget of $119.5 billion, a 5.7 percent increase.

Overall, the report details a comprehensive Chinese military modernization strategy which spans a wide range of areas including investments in advanced medium range conventional ballistic missiles, integrated air defenses, long range land attack and anti-ship cruise missile, counter-space weapons and offensive cyber capabilities.

The report also details Chinese investments in advanced aircraft, submarines and surface combatants including aircraft carriers.

The first long-range deployment of China’s lone aircraft carrier, the LIAONING, marked a significant milestone in Chinese military development and modernization during this past year, the report states.

The carrier, which entered service in September 2012, conducted operations in the East China Sea and South China Sea in November of last year, according to the report.  The report also specifies that a land-based Chinese fighter jet, the J-15, successfully flew from the deck of the LIAONING in September of last year.

While the LIAONING was initially built as a Soviet multi-role aircraft carrier and sold to the Chinese, the report points out the Chinese intention to build their own carriers in the near future.

“China’s talking about investing in their own aircraft carriers. They will have a number of them potentially by the end of this decade,” a senior Defense official said.

Having functional aircraft carriers will massively expand China’s ability to project power both with its region and beyond, making it a more prominent global power.

In fact, senior Pentagon officials said points of tension are likely to continue as China’s military modernization allows Chinese forces, assets and platforms to extend further beyond their borders and therefore interact more frequently with other militaries.

“There will be friction but we want to reduce the risk of miscalculation and misunderstanding,” a senior official said.

When it comes to aircraft, China continued testing its two stealth fighters in 2013, the J-20 and J-31, according to the report.

The report says the multi-role J-20 is not slated to be ready until 2018 and that China faces challenges developing a high performance jet engine.

China also conducted a test flight of its first stealth drone in 2013, called the Lijian, after four years of development, the report says.

On the seas, the Chinese introduced a new type of naval asset in 2013, a stealthy, small, maneuverable warship called the type 056 class of corvettes, the report states. The ship incorporates stealth features making it more difficult to detect using radar, according to the report.

Also, the PLA has introduced a new type of camouflage netting that has multiple layers of special paints, digital camouflage and the ability to counter detection from infrared sensors and thermal imaging devices.

Pentagon officials point to the importance of maintaining open channels of communications with the Chinese so as to be able to manage the differences that may emerge.

“We’re under no illusions as to the complexities of this relationship,” the official said.

Discussing the contents of the report, a senior Defense official described 2013 as a productive year in the development of military to military relations between the two countries.

The U.S. and Chinese militaries conducted more than a dozen senior leader visits in 2013 along with academic and functional exchanges between the two countries, Pentagon officials said. Also, in December of last year, the U.S. military conducted its first disaster management exchange with PLA troops in Hawaii.

“We’ve seen some pretty positive momentum over the past couple of years with the U.S-China relations. We’re focused on sustained and substantive dialogue,” the official said.


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God! Will someone read Chinese military literature. Good buddies indeed! They’re running circles over Western espionage counters. At least “The Art of War.”

China is spending 1/5th of what we spend on our military and getting 10 times more than what we get. But hey, let’s continue to pay our defense contractors more to f up than we do if they come in with a good product on time and on budget, because that’s working so damn well for us.

There isn’t any need for anyone to read “The Art Of War”, because the Chinese have been incredibly *overt* w/r/t their intentions: massive weapons acquisition increases, their new-found (and clumsy) diplomatic bellicosity, recent (and unfounded, w/r/t international law) territorial claims, and numerous (provocative) incidents on the sea and in the air spell their intensions out very clearly.

Patrick Buchanan started complaining about this back in 2002, and all the way through 2008, when he implored the administration of George W Bush to cease and desist with policies that permitted 10’s of thousands of dual-use technologies, manufacturing techniques, and the manufacturing base — not to mention 8.5M+ US jobs to move to communist China.

Buchanan correctly predicted increases in all the above, but also complained because the administration failed to protect American jobs/workers, and made it clear that if all those folks are put out of work, then not only would the federal (and state) governments lose the tax revenues — but they would also then have to pay out welfare, unemployment, and food stamps for those they were in the process of disenfranchising.

These people, are now the one’s the right-wing of the GOP has been complaining are getting “free stuff”.

The US National Intelligence Estimates agreed, and has since declared the mass migration of US technologies to China a massive, multi-faceted, national security disaster: The Chinese (in return for short-term profits of US companies) acquired fare more technologies in six years than the USSR did in 60 years of cold war; The US lost a significant portion of its strategic manufacturing base; the Chinese not only threaten US interests — but also those of all our Allies around the globe as well.

I urge ALL Americans: to write to their elected representatives and insist they protect American jobs, and bring manufacturing back to the USA; and urge all their friends to BUY AMERICAN MADE PRODUCT, and only by Chinese as the LAST resort.

There playing the long game, now they see weakness in policy, there now I sadly suspect their going up the stakes with while smiling saying nothing going on. Crimeria is watershed i suspect for both Russia and China.

First of all China was building it’s military for ages. It is a communist country. That along means there is something wrong. It was preparing for something big. Conflict? I don’t know till it happen. They (China/) already threaten the southeast Asian nation with their ballistic missiles to include the Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan, Japan, among others. China is a billion + population. They are probably fighting for their own survival w/o any regards to others who are non communist.

I was on talk radio in the early-mid 80’s denouncing NAFTA and letting China into the WTO (against it too). It fell on deaf ears because there were fantastic profits to be made. Now we pay the piper.


The US taxpayers get by far the lousiest deal for defense dollar spent than any other nation on the planet — let alone the western world.

I urge everyone to contact/write their elected representatives to demand DoD acquisition reform. REAL ACQUISITION REFORM.

China will do what it wants to do, we cannot control it. It may build 500 B2 type stealth Bombers or 2000 J-20s or 20000 new nuclear warheads. We can hold our own if we have an appropriate response such as increasing our Sub fleet and restarting production of an upgraded F-22, producing supersonic antiship missiles building new nucleat warheads and ballistic Missiles, drop out of NEW START and reequipping our Navy with tactical nuclear Missiles which this President in 2010 unilaterally withdrew including destruction of all their nuclear warheads. This will all cost money and only can be done if the GOP Abandons Sequestration and allows tax increases. Freedom is never free. It is our nonresponse to China and Russia which will have us wiped out.

Find this more political then real. Yes China has made some experimental stealth fighters but since they are not in PLAAF service they must have some technical issues. Overall this is another attempt to scare congress to give up budget cuts. But it shows how much lying they do. what the Army wants like JLTV and USMCs AAV have nothing to do with combating China’s stealth fighters and anti ship missiles. Shows the brass just wants to scare congress to give funds to there pet projects.

ANy way look at all of China’s designs theyre just knock offs of our JSF and Russian MiG prototypes.

Russia is a little peeved with China over fifth generation fighters. China bought a few Russian 5th gen fighters and copied them. Technically they are unable to manufacture the engines and only wanted the planes to reverse engineer everything. Sound familiar? Thieves among thieves. Now the Russians won’t just sell the engines alone to the Chinese. Just deserts I think.

“The carrier, which entered service in September 2012, conducted operations in the East China Sea and South China Sea in November of last year, according to the report” OMG!!!!!! That’s like the USN sailing ONE of its LHA/LHD’s in the Gulf of Mexico or off the coast of Vancouver B.C!.….time for all the pot-heads in Southern California to start digging slit trenches & filling sandbags!!!! The Chinese are coming!!! The Chinese are coming!!!! sound familiar??? LOL!!!

Mr. Dilger: just a FYI: POTUS Clinton signed it into law on December 8, 1993; it went into effect on January 1, 1994. POTUS Clinton, while signing the NAFTA bill, stated that “NAFTA means jobs. American jobs, and good-paying American jobs. If I didn’t believe that, I wouldn’t support this agreement.” The effect of NAFTA on “American Jobs” well that’s just a matter of fact.….….

Correction: I was on the ‘Hello Henry’ late night radio show pleading against the WTO in the 90’s.

Howdy PW!!!
To say that China is a paradox is a understatement. Your spot on w/respect to their fumbling foreign policy. No doubt that China is “flexing its muscle” & in some cases rightfully so. But upon closer inspection like the quote in the “Art of War China” has glaring weaknesses in its military forces. The PLA was savaged in 1979 by the NVA, now that was 35yrs ago, much has changed, but China is surrounded by 14 nations, many of which have bellicose relations with her. I’m not losing sleep over their one LHA/LHD that they FINALLY made sea worthy so the American MIC lobbyists can run around the halls of Congress w/their hair on fire. They have made great strides in cyber warfare, which is deeply troubling.…The US response…put a few PLA Generals on the 10 most wanted list…rather comical. Their anti-space & AD advances warrant attention as well. The US must develop a COORDINATED JOINT UNIFIED COMMAND response!!!!! Not the bickering of the Uniformed Armed Services Chiefs over who gets what. No more billion $$$ Zumwalts & F-35 fiasco’s.…while the US frets over what to do, the PLA advances slowly albeit steadily in its abilities whether through theft of intell, designs, and R & D.….….We now are headed to a “hollow force” e.g. the US Army w/a end strength of 490K & 250K+ civilian & contracting personnel & an excess of facilities…no BRAC! a NIMBY mindset in Congress which is disastrous!!!!

And when their debt-fueled Ponzi scheme of an economy collapses they might be tempted to use them. Still, its nothing a few well chosen American nuclear strikes can’t handle!

It’s good thing the U.S. military will advance too.

That would require the people your writing to to NOT make sure their their people get part of the next jobs bill that comes from the DoD.

Its all screwed up man all of it.

The people are voting for who they see as giving them more jobs/benefits. The reps are voting for the bills that gets those jobs.

“This will all cost money and only can be done if the GOP Abandons Sequestration and allows tax increases.”

First –the sequestration was a Obama camp idea. The GOP thought the Dem’s would never go for something that would hurt that bad. Of course this ignored that it could be used as a beat stick upon their own heads. This also ignored the fact that a significant part of the Democrats Liberal backers WANT a smaller less capable military because they think it will make the US go along with the EU and UN instead of doing what is in our best interest. So The Dems said no and sequestration went into effect. Beat stick active_your post proves it_military getting neutered.

Second –We don’t need a a ton of new taxes just for better decisions to be made aquisitions wise. Stop with the uber stealth fighters that show up on most modern Naval and powerful land radars. AKA F-35.

We WASTE more money on crap than most people spend on their equipment buys. This also ignores that most of the money we spend on the DoD is spent on Personnel.

It’s more of an LHP (just like LHA-6).

I’m looking at my world sea power book from a couple decades back. Isn’t the Chinese “carrier” a former Russian Kiev class hybrid VTOL/helicopter carrier and missile cruiser? The 44,000 ton full weight one?

If there isn’t a more convincing argument to keep the US carrier force at 11 (and to move it back to 12) this would be it. If Hagel cancels plans to refuel the GW than it confirms he’s as big an idiot as Obama has proven to be

Debt-fueled? That debt that you talk about is the interest that we pay to them on the debt that we have incurred. Before Obama, we had a debt of $3 trillion. Now our debt is over $18Trillion, and they are collecting the interest. No president in history has caused our debt to increase like this, $15 trillion in his term. And how does he hope to trim it? By cutting the size of our military. You might as well call our military the American Foreign Legion, for the way that they will be forced to be deployed all of the time.

And if you don’t know it, their carrier can carry only up to 60 planes, and they launch like the British launch, on a curved deck. That makes them jump jets. So the way I see it, it will come down to ability and training as to who is better. And I will always bet on our Navy and Marine Corps pilots. Maybe I am a little persuaded by my years in the Marines, but that is the way that it goes. the ground crew gave them the best birds that they could, and they showed their gratitude in the sky.

Totaly agree! reading the Art of War, there are ways in defeating an enemy without sheading blood.
why kill the cattle?

Ever ready

Must have something planned for over the next 15 to 18 years. they just lifted the ban on more than one child per family and they will increase their military subscription accordingly in about 16–18 years, just about the time their 15 carriers and 125 subs will be ready for use

Lead ship in the class is ” Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov”, a heavy aircraft-carrying missile cruiser (meaning that it is a heavy cruiser designed to carry missiles and aircraft), and was designed and but built for use the Soviet Navy. The Soviet Navy was primarily focused on submarines, the surface fleet primarily used to get those subs from port to open ocean. The purpose of the heavy aircraft-carrying missile cruiser was to protect the group. The lack of CATOBAR points to a lack of a tanker and a focus on relatively light fighters, not heavily loaded for strike/attack or carrying heavy fuel loads, rather more suited to flying CAP missions to protect the group.

That is very different from US Navy’s CVNs each the key element of a CSG when deployed. The CVN carries F/A-18, a fighter / ground attack aircraft. The CSG is a Carrier Strike Group, intended to project power at a distance, to strike, attack. Everything protects everything else within the group, but more importantly everything protects the CVN, and the SSN are there to protect the group much more than the group can protect an SSN.

The Russian ship and its group was designed to control a small patch of water over a few submarines, while the US ship and its group was designed to dominate a much larger 3D space and kick anybody’s ass of their choosing within that larger space, big difference. PLA/PLAN understand that difference very well, but are also working at developing adequate A2/AD to force the CSGs to operate further from the PRC coastline, to push the CSGs beyond the combat radius of the aircraft carried, to defeat the CSG by reducing its utility first, its political support next, and then its funding.

Remember when DefSec Gates was leading the charge to end F-22 production because the Chinese (or Russians) wouldn’t have anything comparable for at least another decade? That was nice intel work there…

JRT: yeah, come 2 think of it, haven’t heard of any CVN’s sailing through the Straits of Formosa lately.……

Leon: a few facts: the PRC holds approx. 1.6 trillion of US Debt, about 10%, 2nd their debt to GDP ratio is approx. 80%, so yes their growth is debt fueled. That’s why their currency the Yuan is “Tied” to the U.S. dollar & not traded “freely” on the forex. You are somewhat correct about the American economic situation. Approx. 75% of federal spending is on “entitlements”, title 19, medicare, SNAP, unemployment benefits, free cell phones, pensions, section 8 housing etc. So cuts must come from “discretionary spending” like defense, border security etc.….good luck to ever gets elected to POTUS in 2016!!!!!!

JRT: u left out their testing of the DF-21D on that “land based mock-up” of a CVN in the Gobi desert!

Lance: The Brits have a saying about the Chinese…“They can copy anything, but master nothing”.….yeah they copied the SU-35 but can’t develop a engine to properly power it…perfect example

Lao-Tzu said: Therefore, in the government of the Sage: He empties their minds, And fills their bellies. Weakens their ambition, And strengthens their bones.

Then that is where over-the-horizon technology like drones and cruise missile-launchers come in? The AWACS can only see so far. What about alleged stealth drones and hyper speed missiles the Chinese are probably stealing from Russia and US sources?

There is the concept of the “Kinsley gaffe”, which is where a political figure inadvertently voices something completely true but that they aren’t supposed to say in public.

There was a classic Kinsley gaffe from an assistant SECDEF in March of this year, who said about Obama’s loudly trumpeted Pacific pivot that, “candidly, it can’t happen”.

And the reason why it can’t happen is simple. The Obama administration would have to spend more money on defense in order to enable the “Pacific pivot”, and instead of doing that, the Obama administration is slashing defense spending across the board. You can’t win if you don’t play, you can’t play if you don’t pay.

You can bet the Chinese paid avid attention to every word.

Howdy KC!

I agree completely with what you’re saying. I like what the British do: their Mod uses a threat analysis board comprised of civilian and military experts, who analyze threats, and then determine the weapons and force structures required to meet them (all Parliament does, is approve the budget — and *nothing* else).

This board sets the strategic direction of the nation in a integrated fashion, with removes 90% of the BRAVO SIERRA, and gives the British people a vastly better deal and defense structure for the money spent.

We should do the same thing here — because our armed forces, despite all the talk about “jointness”, is far more like “every service branch for itself”. The Brits armed forces are *really* integrated, in weapons, strategies, and leadership.

You are not realistic. We are entering a phase similar to the sixties when we were in a vicious arms race w the Soviet Union. We will have to spend 6% of our GDP on defense if we want to have a chance against China. That means raising the defense budget by 250 bill per year .
This is only achievable through taxes on everybody such as a VAT
No politician will touch Medicare

The People’s Republic of China has always played a long game; the US continues to play the 2 — 4 election cycle of graft to get elected and or reelected.

That’s the advantage of being Communist with a market relationship with the capitalists–the capitalists will sell the rope to hang themselves with. [V.Lenin]

And if not, they can always find a capitalist who takes bribes.

it is time for Japan to pull it own weight and build some carriers of its own. we cannot and should not be caring the burden for countries that we have large trade Deficit with like Korea and Japan or most of the Pacific rim countries.

Not only drones and stealth fighters (holy ever loving shit, i am amazed at the number of new stealth aircraft theyve concocted), but tanks, IFVs, and amphibious vehicles for their marines. Then their anti-ship missiles and naval capacity.

Truly chilling. What is equally as chilling is the speed in which china’s neighbors are arming up with a plethora of weapons: Japan, the phillipinnes, south korea, taiwan.

The most chilling is our non-response.We could build supersonic cruise missiles and shortrange ballistic missiles and restart production of the F-22 and build new tactical nuclear missiles to give back to the USN, but we are not doing it and it is a choice the GOP has made together w the President. Ronald Reagan and Reagan democrats would handle this differently. Why are we playing to loose?
Why in this blog forum are we throwing our hands in the air and are not demanding solutions and bringing these issues to the forefront. Maybe we don’t like the answers to solve this such as higher taxes and reduced social security and medicare payments

O but Japan is building carriers of its own. They call them cruisers or something like that, but they are getting as big as our LPH’s, and they are being primed for the F-35.

I for one don’t like dying earlier then I have to. By posting on threads about the nature of the Threat we are doing our patriotic duty to make people aware. It is places like this that citizens can come together away from the corporate media which won’t inform the public about the truth of Washinton politics from both sides. I’ve read these articles and threads for several years and have used this wisdom in discussion bite battles. You on these sites are important for the experience and knowledge represented here. The powers that be sometimes listen, when they can get away from their lobbyists. Who am I? Just another voice among many wanting a great America. And a defender of Western civilization.

Check the spec’s on the DF-21D its a carrier killer!!!! A “Saturation attack” will no doubt get 1 hit on a CVN, (that she no doubt will survive) but that’s the “new reality” w/respect 2 the PRC!

Mr. D: good quote!

Time for a Japan, Taiwan, ROK, PI & Australia Def.Pact w/the US taking up their 6!

Well that’s what we get when William Jefferson Clinton was elected President.Maybe that’s why Hillary want’s to be President so that she can sell out more of America.

japan according to the peace treaty after WWII can only maintain DEFENSIVE forces and equipment to repel invading forces. NO offensive items or forces that can be deployed outside their borders or territorial waters

Next to the US fleet the Japanese maritime self-defense force is the best equipped, professional sea power in Asia. It is Japan that can service US CBG’s.let them convert some of their plutonium stockpile to cruise missiles and China can’t bully their way so much.

LJ: Ross Perot put POTUS Clinton in office!

That is lamentably true, and is why they need to be taken out of the picture.

Regardless, the vast majority of these elected representatives who profess their love of the military never seem to show it by voting for soldier-and-vet friendly legislation, but cannot seem to find a weapons system (or in the case of a more dubious one) or corporate welfare program that doesn’t require urgent funding.

Hence — when they say they support the military — they support the military industrial complex, but not necessarily those who serve. Its ACTIONS (how they vote) that counts — NOT what comes out of their pie holes.

KC —

You might recall the non-nuclear “Global Strike” idea that was being floated around during the Bush years (ICBM’s with conventional warheads). When the Russians heard about that idea, they told us there was no way for them to differentiate between conventional/nuclear warheads, and therefore they would assume the worst (and react accordingly).

The stopped that idea dead in its tracks.

Why we didn’t announce the same thing to the Communist Chinese is beyond me…

Amerika better start building 50 more Ford-class aircraft carriers or 1,000 more Virginia subs or 5,000 of the proposed LRS bombers ! Otherwise start wiping china off the map. Amerika owns the world. And the very future of human civilisation. Heil Amerika.

One of the big problems with acquisition is that it falls under the executive branch of government, so the only elected person you get to hold accountable is the president of the US, and given that there are so many other issues people want the president to respond to, acquisition policies end up very low on the list. It is probably time that the Congress step up and take over the rules governing acquisition, but then with the kind of gridlock we see in Congress, it’s hard to get behind adding one more task to their list of things to do. The one thing that is clear, though, is that something needs to be done. We continue to get less for spending more, and our defense work force is at the lowest level since right after WW2. The defense of this nation has become little more than a welfare program to funnel money into the pockets of the richest and most well connected, and the more money they get, the more power they wield.

Yes, the influence of foreign money over our elected officials is frightening. That’s one reason I advocate that we repeal the 16th amendment. Clearly China has a better lobby in Washington DC than the US taxpayer has. If we ever want the federal government to resume their responsibility of protecting our strategically important industrial might, we are going to have to cut off their ability to directly tax the American people and limit them to mainly subsisting off of duties and tariffs as the founding fathers of this nation originally intended.

Like hell. We spend 5 times more than China and get 1/10th as much for it. So your solution is to throw more money at the problem? Tell me one time that the “throw money at it” solution has worked. Just come up with one time! I’d like to hear it.

And I’m here as someone who has worked in defense for a damn long time, and I can tell you for certain things weren’t always as f’ed up as they are today, and many of the reasons things are f’ed up right now is because of some really bad acquisition reform policies enacted first in the early 1970’s and then the worst of the worst came about in the early 1990’s. The act of paying defense contractor a profit on development is destroying our military. That’s a fact. Until we put a stop that practice, we are screwed.

Yeah, great thinking when it takes us 3 decades to come up with a new operational airplane.

It wasn’t just Clinton signing us up to those treaties. Both Bush’s were “free traitors” and Obama who ran on putting tariffs on goods from China signed the South Korean Free Trade agreement and the only tariff he ever levied on China was a small, short term tariff on cheap crappy tires they were dumping on the US market to try to run the last few of our tire manufacturers out of business.

The Brits are part of the European Union which is decimating their economy. Hardly and example of good foreign policy. The next thing you’ll see is Ireland and Scotland seceding and the entire commonwealth falling apart due to skyrocketing unemployment and debt. Hell, we’re already on that road even without the “help” of the EU.

Yeah, we would have been so much better with Bush in office. From a foreign policy perspective they were the same president. That’s why Perot ran as an independent in the first place.

Dfens —

This was about creating an acquisition system that is efficient, sets the strategy, arranges the force structure, removes the redundancy, and saves a ton of money (i.e. not foreign policy), partially by removing the meddlers in congress from the picture for everything *except* funding.


A couple of dark spots in the desert for US satellites to see plainly is a provocative statement. But it was not a demonstration indicative of PLA having a well developed reliable effective weapon system with a well developed reliable kill chain resistant to disruptive attacks.

Coastal artillery was classic A2/AD (anti-access /area denial) weapon system, and DF-21D ASBM anti-ship ballistic missile would be a modern verson of that (if and when development matures in combination with an effective kill chain). The real key aspect is the strategic purpose of developing DF-21D, which is to influence change on the US Navy (and others), and from what I see it has been very effective at doing that, before it is fully developed and deployed.

Just one example is the abrupt reversal in course in the Navy’s planned buys for surface warships, the DDG-51 restart and truncation of DDG-1000 at two ships (later extended to three). The following link provides a good description. http://​www​.gao​.gov/​a​s​s​e​t​s​/​5​9​0​/​5​8​7​9​0​4​.​txt

Since WW2, US Navy’s crown jewels have been the fleet carriers. For ~3/4 of a century, everything took a back seat to fleet carriers (excepting maybe the SSBNs). Yet recent history has us witnessing Navy willing to mothball a CVN while seeking funding for more BMD capable blue water DDGs.

What they need is a new large fast cruiser for air and missile defense in the CSGs, a ship with the speed and endurance of a CVN, large enough to carry powerful large aperture radar, a large load of missiles in VLS/PVLS, lasers, etc. Navy needs a new CGN.

All that test showed was that their MRBM’s could hit within a CEP roughly defined by the shape of a carrier flight deck. A stationary carrier could be bracketed, which is distressing (especially to carriers moored in Japan), but A2D?

(Suffice to say any carrier in Japan will have little warning unless they are underway or ready to go with a minute’s notice).

We probably did. I’m unsure if the PRC really wants to send missiles flying over the ocean at the United States. I wonder if Ground-Based Midcourse has the range to kill them…

That’s a choice Japan doesn’t want to make. But any SRBM/MRBM technology in their hands would be useful.

“Containment” of the PRC needs radars to assess threats in the form of aircraft and missiles, and undersea passive sonar for submarines (hah!) and ships. Follow up with anti-ship missile launchers on TEL’s or self-propelled carriers…come at me bro.

They lifted the ban even though Chinese agriculture may not be up to the task of scaling up. The Gobi is eating their arable land, pollution is eating more of it…they’ll be like the Soviets, bluster while importing food from the West.

Ok, I see your point. Thanks.

Ronald Reagan winning the Cold War after substantially increasing military spending.
FDR winning WW2 after outspending the Germans. What is so hard to understand?

Several posters are right ‚China spends 1/6th of that of the USA in the military but have a lot more to show for it. A big reason why is that our Pols allowed the defense contractors to gouge. Heck the fraction amt that China spends, it is developing military HPCs, Helicopters, tanks, subs, ACs, jets of all types, cargo carriers, radars et al. The USA with a much bigger budget still can not start up the F 35 and F 22. We should be outraged.

Certainly we didn’t outspend either country as a percentage of GDP, and we got a whole hell of a lot more bang for the buck than the Soviets did.

And we are paying more for defense now than we did at the peak of Regan’s Cold War spending. Throwing good money after bad is not going to fix a damn thing. We’d be better off giving it all to crack whores than we are giving it to the rich that are running the military industrial complex.

Damn straight! We are spending more money than we did during the height of the Cold War and getting next to nothing for it. At the same time we are employing fewer people in defense related jobs than we did at any point since the close of WW2. Hell, most of our defense dollars are clearly going into the hands of a few ludicrously rich people and the rest is going overseas. How does any of that make this country stronger?

Robert Samuelson stated that as far back as 2007, China’s technological prowess has surpassed the USA. What the heck is D.C. sitting on their butt with politics as usual and let these defense contractors gouge us to death. The price of an F 22 is 70 times that of a J 20 ‚totally absurd, the F 22 still have bugs in them especially with the cabin oxygen. The F 35 is 25 times that of a J 20 yet still not operational and many USA pilots will not fly it ‚too dangerous. Most of you are right and have a right to be ouraged bc that is your tax dollar at work.

J-20 is unproven and an F-22 would likely chew its ass, which is easily worth 10x the price if it dominates the airspace.

While quantity can have a quality all its own, it can also simply present a target rich environment to a truly superior adversary. Witness the Battle of the Philippine Sea, aka the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot.

The article linked below mentions that China leased ~5% of Ukraine last year, 3 million hectares (11,500 square miles) of Ukrainian farmland. ~$2.6B per year for 50 years. Much of it is in the Crimea, providing more incentive for Tsar Putin to pick that ripe low hanging fruit.

Interesting article that I completely missed. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I wonder what happens if that land becomes Russian occupied. I don’t think Ukraine is giving it back.

I feel like they would get a better ROI by simply turning their hand to environmental remediation. For starters the food will have to be shipped by refrigeration or via Trans-Siberian to China. Considering that China and Russia are working on building rail to ship goods to Western Europe, it is a perfect idea to send manufactured goods to the west, and then use those cars to ship goods back east on the return trip.

Perhaps it is time for China to take over the seas. Afterall, America can’t seem to do anything right these days, and certainly has no direction in it’s national endeavors, much less policies. Contractors rob DoD, by selling us junk, like the LCS and F-35, and the military routinely accepts it! We have such poor leadership, not only in Washington, but also within the military ranks. We lost our manufacturing capabilities, our economy has never climbed out of the tank, contrary to what the government propaganda has been telling us. Our dollar is so weak, that all it would take is for OPEC to stop trading in Petro-dollars to make the dollar totally worthless and change our way of life as we know it over-night. We are certainly in no position to contest China, if they ever decide to push the envelope.

Don’t act like A10s will be the cureall to all this.

The F-22 is unproven and you have no basis upon which to declare that it would chew any other airplane’s ass beyond your hope that it is true. The fact that we have only 175 of them is absurd, and even of that number, the availability of all our stealth aircraft is very low.

China doesn’t have to fire a shot our way to completely control the US. They already control our politicians. They would instantly bankrupt most of our “companies’ if they stopped providing them goods and capital equipment. We are nothing but a welfare queen state. We like to go out in our nice car and show off like big shots, but there’s nothing backing it up.

I made a comment that the administrator thinks was wrong obviously.Sir or madam you cannot stifle the TRUTH what I said on China is TRUE.And YOU and every American will see it come to pass.I wont be back here.

Hmmm? Someone with a brain in his head…Good response.

I would like to add further that the Chinese Yuan goes a long way over there and being still a communist state can get whole lot things done in all avenues of technology due to the absence of free market enterprise. That’s right more done especially in the area of national defense. Remember your history on how fast Nazi Germany grew without money grabber profiteers causing so much stumbling?

If you don’t already know it America is being sold down the river by all sorts of big business operatives many who are foreigners replacing our jobs with machines, illegal aliens as well as a tsunami of work going to the all the cheap labor markets the foremost being China. All of this being done to fattened the rich just like in that movie “Wolf of Wall Street” who can give a shiite about the rest of us.

I tell everyone that like in nature capitalism is an actual force complete with all its vectors and sum equations. As a force capitalism would mimic what we see in nature, where instead of all the climatic environmental factors mankind sets all force components into play. As in nature with its survival of the fittest and adaptable winners, there are basically two major classes, the rich and the poor, or as in nature carnivores and herbivores. The cunning rich are the predatorily adept carnivores who use the ignorant massed poor as lowly roaming herbivore prey. Yes there are some omnivores in the mix usually very low in populations with abilities to adapt to both types of consumption capabilities. They’re called the middleclass.

Why? If China is smart they will continue as they are kicking everybody’s butt economically. Building an army or navy to conquer what? The South Pacific? That was already tried which turned out to be a big waste of time, as was our ME misadventure in the tune of $5 trillion. Another thing you need to ask when was the last time China went to war with another country? As my history is rusty I would have to guess, what a 1,000 years ago, like they know how to fight a real war? Besides once they takeover any overpopulated POS island country over there I am quite sure their occupation strategy will be severely challenged. Considering that they do so much business with the western world especially America how long can either of us entertain economic solvency with a major cut in our business relations? You need to look up the history trail on “Global Economy” as Post WWII peace initiative.

The source of your argument falls on the wings of economics as a weakness in our democratic designed republic, specifically capitalism.. Capitalism is great at meeting our WANTS but terrible at meeting our NEEDS. Conversely socialism is great at meeting our NEEDS but awful at meeting our WANTS. Both breed greed but capitalism takes the lion’s share especially when it applies to ones NEEDS. When something is needed the consumer will pay any price for anything even close to a bear resemblance of quality. A lazie faire capitalistic society like a socialistic dominated one produces poor quality products at high prices. To assure the best of all possible worlds a balance must be kept with COMMONSENSE rules and regulations so we can all play nice in our financial playground.

Terminology aside, it’s all about how the future looks if we continue to listen to the nonsense coming from the right on cutting big government. Without the government creating jobs this country is done. I see nothing but more of the same with the rich selling this country out on jobs to all the cheap labor markets and robo-sourcing.

I recently read this book by Dr. Richard Wolfson of Middlebury College called Energy Environment and Climate and it says if we were to use photovoltaic solar panels to cover an area around 4% the size of New Mexico we can take care of all our country’s current electricity needs. That’s roughly 4% of 121,593 square miles, which is about 7/8 the the size of Connecticut or 4,863 square miles. I called this guy up and he told me as a matter of fact that China is running away with this technology and it won’t be long until they just stop using fossil fuels for energy altogether. Then as in the movie “Other People’s Money’ and Danny DeVito’s ‘Buggy Whip’ speech, will America and the world be forced look towards China as the new leader of all that is powerful in technology, economics and energy?

They have some sort of robo-admin that blocks comments based on criteria that’s not at all clear. I think it basically looks for responses that are written in 2nd person and deletes them assuming they are personal attacks instead of reasoned responses. It obviously does not work and is extremely irritating because there is no warning and suddenly everything that was typed is gone regardless of the value of the content. Usually after this happens to me I’ll copy what I’ve written to the clipboard before I hit “Submit Comment” for a few times and then as soon as I forget to do that the robo-admin will delete another comment as soon as I forget to do that.

It’s ironic that Russia is mad about China copying the fighter they designed by copying the F-14.

“A couple of dark spots in the desert for US satellites to see plainly is a provocative statement” jeez man, its a mock up of a carrier. check it out.…..the PLA(N) has been blastin away at that HY-XXXX hull 4 years.…..

Excellent point PW, they’ve got a whole lot of those DF-21d’s stashed no doubt!!!! No more Taiwan Strait CVN runs!!!!

what’s your source for that, & proceedings have a totally different take.….


Intended message is they have conventional MRBM’s accurate enough to drop on an airbase, or a runway, or something roughly the size of a carrier’s flight deck. But there’s a lot between firing a missile and sinking a carrier underway at sea (affectionally dubbed the “kill chain”).

And that assumes that the missile test is “honest”. What if the tests are done at night, with misses paved over until the nicest one appears for Americans to pick up on google earth et al? The assumption of deception is easy to over-apply, so it is often better to assume that things represent honest capabilities until proven otherwise.

We are so focused on the ability to strike carriers that the possibility this will be fired into Guam, Japan et al is ignored. If a MRBM with an airfield-denial munition is fired into Japan, Guam, et al…then have we focused on protecting the wrong things?

More like no more Pacific pivot.

instead of taxing poor Americans already we could just stop frivolous gov spending on stuff like solandra or military bases we dont use etc and stop shoveling out billions to countries that squander it, some may say these countries need the aid in order to fight terror groups. Terror groups are no way powerful or as dangerous to the U.S. as China ‚North Korea and Russia.

seems to me like the 1930’s all over again with China taking Japans place. I wonder if they will bring us friendship medals as well before they attack. I hope the US is not as stupid as they were in the 1940’s.

We seem to have gotten worse, not better.

Say “nuclear” one more time…’cause I’m still not quite sure what the focus of your proposed “strategy” is…


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